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Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by BiggieShmeezh, Dec 7, 2020.

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  1. Saabjock

    Saabjock Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It'll be nice when the guys get around to dampening the rate of chassis roll around the longitudinal axis.
    If looking at the base of the windscreen during cornering on bumpy surfaces, the rate of chassis roll is still too quick for some cars...(BMW M6 in particular). It is as if the car has very stiff springs and very little mass. I'm sure it'll get fixed at some point but it'll be really nice when it does...hopefully sooner than later. Still a fun car in it's current state.
     
    Saabjock, Dec 9, 2020
    #21
  2. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thats part and parcel to the same soft damper issue except specific to the slow damper settings. A low transition speed may also cause problems with this as well, as the high speed dampers would interfere in what would otherwise be in the slow damper range, depending on the circumstances.
     
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #22
  3. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Here some more eye candy for you guys.

    The attachments are of a spreadsheet designed to pre-adjust damping in PC2. Pay attention the the graphs. Between the blue lines are considered the optimal range. (Light blue, stiff, Dark blue soft).

    Note the "bend" in the blue lines at around the 75 range. This is the transition speed "elbow". Essentially the point where the damping goes from low speed to high speed.

    Capture 3 is what the red line (your settings) should look like.
    Capture 3.PNG
    Capture 4 is the closest approximation I could within the PC2 framework. The setup options for AMS2's version of the porsche GT3 are drastically different (re: springs/arbs) and the damping is really, in the eyes of someone like me, problematic, with HS damping in particular, almost off the chart soft.
    Capture 4.PNG

    ps. i love PC2 btw. its the best sim out there (by far) for setup freaks, like me
     
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #23
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  4. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Hi, how is the spreadsheet taking into account the suspension motion rate (not known both in Pcars and Ams)?
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #24
  5. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Motion ratio you mean? Its protected so I can't see the formulas, but it has to be there as the frequencies and compression are calculated and the optimal damping curve changes when you make spring adjustments.
     
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #25
  6. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yep, I meant motion ratio.
    If you share the file I can reverse engineer it easily.

    Thanks.
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #26
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  7. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Here is the link to the link. maybe there is some info in the post you can use. The chart includes ALL the cars in PC2. If you can find the spring and damper MRs for any cars that are in common with AMS2 (even if the model year is different), I will literally buy you a 12 pack of your favorite beer via paypal.

    Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.996(b)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #27
  8. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Tested it and IMHO it's not working properly.
    In any case in order to perform a better analysis it would be needed to know at least some entries.

    The car weight and estimation of unsprung masses would be perfect.
    Can you provide the above data for the 911 GT3R?
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #28
  9. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah, I cannot. I wish I could. I was not involved in the spreadsheet creation. It was a massive project.

    Actually, I might be able to get the installation ratio though, let me try.

    UPDATE: I cannot. Dang.
     
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #29
  10. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    BTW, for the 991 GT3 R the front motion ratio (with realistic values for weight and unspung mass) is close to one.
    At the rear no combination of reasonable parameters lead to the damping ratios (or frequencies) calculated in the spreadsheet...
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #30
  11. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Ok, done.
    For Porsche GT3 R:
    - Front unsprung: 20kg (each wheel)
    - Rear unsprung: 30kg (each wheel)
    - Front motion ratio: 1
    - Rear motion ratio: 0.815
    - Total weight 1313kg

    With those values the results of my spreadsheet are exactly (delta <0.05%) the same as the one linked.
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #31
  12. steelreserv

    steelreserv Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    PC2 or AMS2?
     
    steelreserv, Dec 9, 2020
    #32
  13. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    ?
    Your excel file was for Pcars2.
    Unless Reiza shares some reference values for AMS2 we can't say anything about it.
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 9, 2020
    #33
  14. Peter Stefani

    Peter Stefani Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    [​IMG]
    I found the 911 to be ok IMO, just took more time to get there.
    (this has nothing to do with the BOUNCY issue. Developer said it was likely caused by some tire model/s.)
     
    Peter Stefani, Dec 9, 2020
    #34
  15. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    What (which) 911 are you showing here?
     
    Marc Collins, Dec 10, 2020
    #35
  16. Peter Stefani

    Peter Stefani Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    [​IMG]
    911_GT3_R_Nurbergring_GP Springs 248/338
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
    Peter Stefani, Dec 10, 2020
    #36
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  17. Avoletta1977

    Avoletta1977 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Tested again the Porsche GT3 R and by cranking up as much as possible the damping, removing the bumpstops and using lowest available anti-roll the bouncing is close to none.

    Not as entertaining to drive as one would expect but not shaking, at all.

    Cayman GT4 is the usual disaster lifting front wheels like a superbike.
    Terrible from any point of view: undesteery, bouncy, with limited traction and not adjustable on throttle.
    Hopefully no one from Stuttgart will ever try it... :D

    The Ginetta G58 is another example of suspension issues, but at least is fun to drive anyway.
     
    Avoletta1977, Dec 10, 2020
    #37
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  18. Saabjock

    Saabjock Member AMS2 Club Member

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    This is a good sim but it'll be superb if... or when Reiza Studios gets that weird chassis bounce ironed out.
    The frequency is too high at the moment.
    It acts as if the chassis has zero mass when touching some curbing or going off track.
    It just bounces and rolls too quickly.
    The weight of the car and the compliance of the rubber is not yet well represented.
    It is still fun though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
    Saabjock, Dec 28, 2020
    #38
    • Agree Agree x 3
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