Any response to Billy Strange Saying the Cars are too "bouncy"

Billy Strange on his youtube channel has been saying for a while that the cars in AMS2 are too lively and bouncy compared to how a real car is setup. I sort of feel the same in my few hours with the game.

 

I thought this was pretty interesting.
Automobilista 2 V1.1.0.0 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.1.0.1

 

I'm no fan of First Impression videos in general. Yeah well, you know, that's just like your opinion, man. I know that Billy is capable of going into great detail with a lot of time invested in researching and testing - his GTR2 racing series is testament to that. But somehow he can't be bothered to spend an hour or two with a car he presents and makes a video commenting on? In one of his recent GT3 videos he didn't even know which tyre he was on. I disagree with his method of not doing any setup work. I know why he says he does it, but I don't think that's a valid point, because in the end he cannot differentiate between a bad representation of the car and a bad stock setup.

He prides himself somewhat of having raced cars in real life, so I think he should be held to a higher standard. Doing 10 laps and then concluding "I like it / I don't like it" isn't very useful imo.

That all being said, I agree with Billy that the cars are slidey out of the box and easy to overdrive, and the ongoing issues with the diff implementation don't help, but that's what setups are for in the end. I think what he said about bouncing in the video was more related to camera and head movement settings than car behaviour.

 

Billy annoys the crap out of me. I think he was a dirt sprint car driver at one stage or something and now knows everything about Sim racing cars.
The last video I watched of his he was driving the Sirocco in R3E and made the comment that he wasn't using his H pattern because he "couldn't be bothered setting it up" my thought was why isn't it just always set up? He has a dedicated Sim rig. Then he made the excuse that his pedals "aren't at all set up for heel and toe foot work" Maybe he should move away from his inside Sim racing Thrustmaster sponsors and get some pedals that can be set up for heel and toe all the time?
Anyway I think it's obvious he annoys me so it's probably that and he is fine and it's just me

 

In Billy's defense, he never said he's more than a former race car driver who gives his opinions because people like hearing what he has to say.

He also does understand setups, just prefers to evaluate cars without touching the default. This is more than some professional simracing YouTubers, who seem to take pride in their ignorance about setups, that is until they are 2-3 seconds off the pace and start begging their chat for a setup...

Billy was also right about the GT3 tyre model in that other review. It was completely off. Soft tyres would cook within 2-3 laps of normal driving to the point of spinning off, as if they were 1980's F1 qualifying tyres. Luckily that issue got fixed.

I'm not quite sure why hes been so negative lately, and not just about AMS2 either. One thing he has is an uncanny talent in finding out bugs and flaws in sims. Like at 9:30, when he runs into the diff suddenly wide open -bug. His diagnosis isn't right, but he is good at finding issues. So the videos do serve a purpose even if they are sometimes too negative and come off as being whiny.

 

I feel they probably do bounce a little too much, even after fixing the initial problems. I find rF2 less bouncy in the same car, and ACC doesn't seem to bounce at all. I don't know what's right though, nor how much is due to differences in the modelling of head movement or the actual motion of the car.

 

If you increase head movement to 100% in rF2 and ACC, I guarantee your cars will bounce too. I was getting motion sick in ACC with 100% head movement.

Most sims that offer motion downscaling as an option seem to default to something like 40-50% of the real motion, which of course is unrealistic but is a compromise that compensates for the fact that our necks and eyeballs are compliant and smooth out much of the bouncing. The closer you get to 0%, the closer you are to the authentic Assetto Corsa experience of hovercraft cars sliding over the track surface being pushed down by an invisible hand.

In the Madness Engine, there seems to be no way to scale down the motion, just splitting 100% of the motion between the world and the car. Until that option is somehow made available, the complaints are likely to persist.

 

You might be right, but (there's always a 'but'!) I think I can feel the bounce through the steering, as it's quite low frequency, and I feel it more in AMS2 than in rF2, and I can't feel it at all in ACC.

 

I feel it's probably down to the tyre model being bouncier than rF2's tyre model, as tyres are relatively undamped, and I'd hope they'd not get the mass/spring/damper modelling (of the suspension) wrong, but tyres are harder to model (from what I've heard, just getting reliable data is troublesome).

 

There's a separate issue that some cars lack high-speed damping and that comes through the FFB, although I think recent changes in tyre sidewall stiffness and damper defaults have improved the situation somewhat.

The less said about ACC FFB the better.

 

Billy is so predictable, always angry and grumpy about something unless it is a 10 years old sim or more he has some kind memory of. Not sure what is the point of his videos anymore, they are not pleasant and painful to watch.
You could give him AMS2 3 years from now and he will still be grumpy and angry about something because it does not align with his concept of what a sim should be: super stable and easy and predictable cars to drive for tired simdads...

 

I used to sub to him but he just got too grumpy all the time.

 

His voice sounds nice, but I wish people would stop listening to 'Influencers' and make up their own mind.

 

Thanks Renato, that made for an interesting read for someone like me with no dev (...or even much general IT) knowledge.

As a slight aside, today was the first day that I was able to spend much time in game since before Christmas. So I spent it with the new Porsche GT1 at both Spa and Bathurst. After spending several hours testing and racing I’ve managed to work out two set ups that have transformed the driving experience from the default. I’ve enjoyed the learning process and have a sense of accomplishment having got my times down from 2:04 at Bathurst to 1:58.somethingorother.

Still a hell of a long way from the TT record holder and I’m still a long way from fully understanding how to best setup my cars, but I’m having fun and learning. I’m not convinced I would have quite as much fun if it was simply a case of jumping into a default car and blamming down on the throttle (although I admit I would like to be good enough to do a Nemesis69 and scrawl my name across most leader boards in game using a default - he’s everywhere)

 

Like chalk on a chalkboard

 

Billy Strange produced some of my favourite content on the old Inside Sim Racing channel, but since then he has become too jaded and negative for me to enjoy... or just "grumpy" as it was said before.

I do agree with some of his criticism of AMS2, but it's the way that he presents his criticism that bothers me. He keeps using his real life experience to make judgments on all type of sim racing cars, even when they have little to no relation with the type of cars he used to drive.