AI is too fast for me at 70 with aggression on 0.

Hello! For the last few years, I've been playing PCars 1 and 2 with the AI turned way down, usually between 8 and 25. So imagine my surprise when I came into AMS2 and found the lowest AI level was 70!

I'm not a much of a sim racer. I've logged about 130 hours total in the Project Cars games, about half of that was with a wheel before I sold it. Now I'm playing on an Xbox controller with automatic gears. But I do enjoy doing clean laps and setting the AI to go at MY speed, instead of me being forced to go at theirs. So I'm just really disappointed that I can't do that here.

Is there any reason why AMS2 doesn't use a 1-100 scale like Project Cars and the more recent F1 games? From an accessibility viewpoint, having such control over your AI competition is a good thing, isn't it?

 

I could be wrong but my understanding is AI at 70 on AMS2 is probably similar to other sims with AI much lower. I don't know the scale. Have you tried turning down the aggression? Maybe at 70 strength and 0 aggression they will be passive for you. I'm not very fast myself, but I compete ok with AI around 90. I'm not sure if any of this helps, but I hope you can make it work for your level because this is a great game.

 

Cheers Jeff, I appreciate the response. Unfortunately, I'm already playing with aggression on 0 and it's bonkers fast compared to what I'm used to in PCars.

And I'm bummed about that because as you say, AMS2 is a great game. I love the feel of the cars, and want to get involved in the races.

 

Don't know if you already have some of the driving-aids on? Maybe that will help you with keeping up?

 

Seems to be different with different classes. At 85% I am a champ in the GT1, but in the Lotus 79, I'm dead last....it's not the same across the board for me. Usually 85% with 50% aggression.

 

I tried turning assists on, but no, I still can't keep up. I'll play more later and maybe post some AI times at 70/0 to give a better idea of how quick they are, and perhaps where they would place in the leaderboards.

 

AMS2 doesn't like 0 for several settings, try 1 or 2.
What class circuit combination are you using?

 

@SaxOhare, interesting thought. I tried the following test twice, changing the aggression from 0% to 2%, but it made less than 0.4 secs difference to the winning car's best lap time.

Okay, so let's look at a specific example:

* Azure Circuit,
* All cars in a Caterham 620R
* Eleven AI opponents
* Difficulty 70, Aggression 0
* 3 laps

Currently, there are 27 entries in the leaderboard for this car and track.

Fastest AI lap: 1:57.64 - this would go at #19 on the leaderboard
Slowest AI lap: 1:59.34 - this would be also go at #19.

I'm at #23 with 2:04:675. I'll do some more practice and see if I can improve.

 

I did a quick test, a 70/50 Fastest 1:57.360 slowest 2:01.759.
AI is pretty fast here
I noticed the AI accelerate stable and therefore fast out of the corners, much faster then I can do.
Azure is a chain of corners, so the AI has a great advantage every lap.
I think the AI skill level isn't influencing the acceleration of the AI
I would try another Car-track combo.

 

Using the same car and settings at Brands Hatch:

AI fastest: 1:41.714 = #53 out of 71 on the leaderboard
AI slowest: 1:43.019 = #57 on the leaderboard

Me so far: 1:49.880 = #66

@SaxOhare, it's interesting you say that the AI skill level setting might not be working on corners. If it's true, then that's surely a bug.

 

Definitely try different cars because with some, it's much easier to keep up with the AI.

I find I can keep pace with the AI at 100% in various cars (eg. Opala, Copa Uno, Copa Classics, Mini Cooper S, Formula Vee, some of the GTs, etc) yet with others, I can be up to 3 or 4 seconds off their lap times.

This is in part because more practise is required in these cars to improve my times and in part because the AI still has a lot of fine tuning to be done (eg. in some cars, the AI are unrealistically fast and have more grip than you through some corners and this needs to be toned down).

Reiza may also introduce more AI personality in time so that the AI drivers make a few more human-like errors and misjudgements.

You're also playing with an XBox controller so putting yourself at a disadvantage. I used to play with the same gamepad and find this game much more difficult than other sims because it is too sensitive to every movement you make on the thumbstick, so it makes it really hard to hold you line on, for example, long fast corners. Unless you have incredibly steady thumbs, it reacts to every tiny movement in your thumbstick and I found myself lurching around far too much, where other sims filter these tiny movements out and it's a much smoother driving experience.

I'm now using a wheel and it transforms the experience but there are still some cars which I don't bother with against the AI because they're currently too fast and/or have too much grip. But racing these same cars online can be fun because you're up against humans using the same physics and with no unfair grip/speed advantages - although talent and set-up knowledge might mean some people are still 3-4 secs faster than me. And in your case, gamepad won't help.

 

This is a general issue with some of the high-powered cars (FClassic is another example) that the AI gets an unrealistic acceleration out of corners that the player cannot match, and that this is largely unchanged by changing the AI strength. They just get slower and slower on corner entry, but then always outpace the player out of them. To me this renders these classes basically useless in terms of AI racing.

 

While I understand and agree with all that's being said here, I still don't understand why the range of AI speed/skill can't be made broader.

In the V0.9.6.0 Update Notes, they "Clamped opponent AI Strength range to 70-120%".

I don't know what it was before that, but if the lower end were reduced further, then we could all set up competitive races regardless of track, car or controller.

 

I use very similar settings and agree, the AI does not seem to be balanced.

 

Azure is also the worst track for pad imaginable. I have serious problems just keeping the car on track there, and I consider myself a reasonably accomplished Dualshock 4 driver (if we're talking AI strengths, I tend to be well-matched in 95-100 territory, with some exceptions).

I'd guess it's because Reiza does not want this to be a "casual" game, so a certain level of ability is needed. I personally don't agree with that philosophy, as it prevents some players from enjoying the game - but then again, it does motivate that part of players to improve, as seen in this thread.

To be honest, the AI at 70 (in most cars, at least, there are unfortunate exceptions) is not lapping in eSports territory, it's not even lapping quickly. I don't want to do any "slow-shaming" here, but not being able to keep up with these AIs (and your posted times) kind of point to something being seriously wrong with your driving style/hardware, especially seeing that the controller is not actually slower than a wheel on this game, just harder.

Maybe it's something in your controller settings, maybe it's the way you do corners? The thing is, you're probably going to get more fun out of this game if you manage to get yourself to a basic level of ability - because things are usually more enjoyable if you're proficient at them.

So maybe consider sending a video in this thread, so we can have a look at the way you're driving? After all, we can't really reduce the AI strength, and that's the only way we can help you atm.

Before that, the strength adjuster did not work properly and the AI tended to be equally strong regardless of setting.

EDIT: Also, I've just tried the 620R, and it's one of the most unpredictable and difficult cars in AMS2. Not sure whether that's the right car to get started with AMS2...

 

I suppose I was hoping to build some kind of consensus here that the lowest AI setting was too high, and that if enough people agreed, Reiza might lower it further.

But it seems I'm in the minority, if not alone in that train of thought.

I'm admittedly not a great driver, but I didn't think that so much of the content - most races and the championship mode - would be almost unplayable in the sense that I can't keep up with the AI.

On the bright side, there are plenty of people in Time Trial mode that I *can* compete against, so I'll use AMS2 for that. As for racing the AI, I'll have to stick with Project Cars 2.

I'm on Steam as JapanGamer29. If anyone wants to add me to make my ghosts easier to find - go for it. I'd especially like to see more gamepad players on those leaderboards.

Edit: By the way, what would you consider the easiest cars and tracks for gamepad players?

 

I think you should try some of the GT3 cars or the Brazilian stock cars you may be surprised. I agree with others, Azure track is just too difficult for any car any level. I get my butt kicked there no matter what car I drive.
I also do agree that the Formula cars are FAAAASSTT... I was competing just fine at 90% AI in GT3, GT1, and Brazilian stock car. I am not a good F1 driver but I wanted to experiment with some of the historical cars.. and in each case I was getting crushed in any F1 of any era .. I guess, as others have said.. it comes down to practice and how much time you've had with each car on the track. I can't speak to using a controller because I have no idea how anyone can use a controller to drive a car lol.. but that is me ..
I hope you find your "sweet spot" with this game. I really do. I would be glad to run with you on Steam, as I don't consider myself very fast, and I'm not that competitive either. I will look for your tag.. On steam I am Voltaj Tepes.

 

I did say I agree with you. It's just that the list of things to fix in this sim is somewhat excessive, and I think you're better off improving your pace instead of hoping for an update that might not come for another year - or never. It's also not an issue that's likely to gain a lot of traction, because most people regularly playing this can keep up with the AI.

Best Cars for pad, in my opinion: Formula Reiza (very quick, but not at all sensitive to bad inputs), Formula 3 (a bit more sensitive, but quite a lot of time to react), Stock Car 2019, Roco 001, Metalmoro MRX (the one in the P4 class), Stock Car 1986, ARC Camaro (quite slow and easy to correct), SprintRace (a bit bitchy on the brakes, though, that one), and Formula V10 Gen2.
Most of these are quite friendly when you touch the steering at wrong times, and except for the Formula V10 Gen2, all of them are relatively easy to handle on the throttle.

BTW: Cars that are exceptionally difficult on pad: Every Formula car from before 1980, Caterham 620R, Formula Ultimate (you need to be very precise), Formula Vee (haven't driven it after the latest update though), Group C and Super V8 (both simply difficult on throttle), Copa Montana (at least for me; I never understood any spins in that one), the three road cars (Ultima, McLaren and Camaro).

There's not a single car on this sim that's undriveable with a pad, but the Caterham 620R, the road cars and the Formula Vintage Gen1 get close.

The GT3s are a bit weird on this game, because while they are easy to steer and accelerate, the braking is actually quite a challenge. I personally don't like to drive them.

Also, on steam I'm DicraeoF1, but I'm not on many leaderbords (the only one I can remember being Formula Ultimate in Interlagos). Maybe gonna set a few laptimes with some of the cars I recommended later on this day, I guess.

 

Hi there, first post on the forum, but been hanging around for a while.
In my experience the Opala 79 AI is quite slow, I have to crank it up to 118-120 depending on track to match my pace. Normally my AI level is around 95-100. Also Opala 79 on historical Interlagos is really fun to drive, a grat combo. Although I don't know how it is with a gamepad.