Great Game - Made Completely Unplayable by the AI

Picked this game up during the Steam summer sale.

For the most part I really enjoy it and think the physics and handling are perfectly fine. Nice selection of cars and tracks. Great graphics.

The AI, however, are a completely different story. This game has by far the most psychopathic AI I've ever encountered in any racing game, and the 'aggression' slider seems to do absolutely nothing. Even with aggression on 0 they will still try to murder both you and themselves.

The issues are numerous. Refusing to give you racing room, smashing into the back of you, attempting wild divebombs down the inside and even going off track to do it, trying to make passes on the outside of corners where you really shouldn't, pit maneuvering the player and even each other, turning into you in corners even when you're fully alongside on the inside, driving straight on into you when they exit the corner if you're passing on the outside .... the AI logic basically acts like the player doesn't even exist the majority of the time. If you come out of a corner a bit too slowly they will just accelerate into the back of you as if you don't exist as well. Just tried to do some races at Montreal in a few different classes and the AI can't even get through the final chicane in a rolling start without smashing into the wall.

I've seen the latest updates from the devs and glad to see they're working on the AI, but I honestly don't know how they can fix the current state of them without completely rebuilding the AI logic from the ground up.

 

It's true that they do this in the case of some classes and tracks, but in general I don't find that the AI behaves like that anymore. You should report specific issues with car classes and tracks in the AI thread instead of making blanket statements that might only be specific to the classes and tracks you race.

 

Long beach and nords are the worst for me. Practically unplayable with the AI.

 

I'm probably the only person in the whole of sim racing that doesn't have an issue with the AI. I think this is because of my pace (Slow) and also, I adapt to the AI rather than waiting for them to adapt to me because they never will. I know people do have issues and yes that must be frustrating for you but maybe it's worth trying to adapt your driving style to suit the AI? i hope you find a setting that works. I usually have open wheelers at 85 with 70 aggression and tin tops at 95 and 70 aggression. I never win but this level makes me keep practising to try and improve my consistency. When I'm coming into corners, I can see the AI backing off or pulling away from me if side by side so as someone suggested, maybe list which tracks you have problems at as the devs are constantly working with the AI. Cheers

 

I have to agree with the previous poster, and trust me if I thought there was an issue I would be very vocal about it (see my gripes about the McLaren GT3). I find that as long as there is not a big pace differential then they are ok (I use that term in the specific sense- not great, not awful, about ok). They still cut over the grass on the inside, wont concede a corner even when blatantly lost (even to the extent of driving into hay bales rather than concede the corner) etc etc. But I honestly cant remember the last time I got punted or sideswiped. If I keep to my lane if there's a car alongside I seldom have any issues beyond those described above.
Possible avenues to explore would be maybe following an ai around the track to see where you might be faster or slower. I try to have it set so that I can just keep up with the fastest ai without having to drive like a mentalist.. that way I get maybe one or two overtake points a lap but also they get a crack at me.
If I find Im driving into its rear bumper then Ive either gotten my brake points too late or the ai is too slow. Obviously dial it up a few notches. If I find I cant hang on to the ai without sliding through every corner then dial it back a bit.
Perhaps the biggest element is to also dial in the brake pressure and balance so its almost perfect for a generic day on that track. That way stopping distance is optimal with no locking up and all braking potential is realised. Its surprising sometimes how much the brake pressure and balance has to be adjusted to achieve that from the default setups.
So in summary I would address the following to see if improvements can be found:
ai braking performance- your braking performance- brake pressure- brake balance- ai difficulty.

 

Agreed with previous two. They work for the most part for me and do not punt or ram like maniacs.

The issues I have are specific. Running side by side. Going for very desperate gaps. General shenanigans here and there. And struggling to keep it clean at challenging tracks such as Long Beach. Maybe the lack of draft between AI which has been mentioned multiple times. I haven't paid that much attention to that tbh.

I simply do not understand why the game seems to make the AI punt some human drivers off. It's not that I don't believe anyone that says that - it's just that does not happen to me as long as I race them with care. Are we playing the same game?

They do not just get out of your way and you have to respect their space like I hope you do with other human drivers online. At the same time they both respect and steal your space if the opportunity rises. This is sometimes made worse by the fact that they go for said desperate gaps.

They also do race driver-y things like squeezing you so you have minimal space, defending the inside line and getting their nose in aggressively (this is what's often a bit too desperate). It seems to me like there are cases where any of these might fail. But the concept is sound - AI that actually gives you a hard time on track. And makes mistakes. When is the last time you saw a race that was 100% clean?

I wonder if they should realise better that they can't overtake with two wheels on the grass in many places. It will lead into them crashing into the barrier thing at Oulton Park's first chicane for example. And it's bloody annoying .

 

Yeah Oulton Park is quite irritating through those chicanes. Its one of my favourite tracks so maybe one day I'll be able to pull off the perfect pass into there without the ai parking on my car post hay bale impact..

 

I have finished several races with AI and human drivers in Combo. I own most prominent Sims and have about 50 - 100hrs in each. I am not the best driver, but manage to rank among top 10 on a AI level mof 95 %and Agg 90%. I/we typically race 20 min training, 10 Minutes Quali and 30 Minutes - 60 Minuets races with Pitstop. I raced Hockenheim ( new and old track ), Daytona Nascar, Nurburgring GP and several other tracks. I cannot report any specifically detrimental AI behaviour over and beyond what would happen in HI races of comparable skill level. However, one has to bear in mind, that AI racing-lines or paths as well as braking and accellaration points are programmed and deviate only marginally depending on the AI skill level. Aggression has to do with AI behavior when overtaking. I assume, as this behaviour is also programmed, that even AI "expects" other drivers , AI or HI, not to behave irrationally. Nevertheless, even if you take AI at 100%, you will have AI drivers who are faster then others, braking later then others and accelerate earlier then others. Now without knowing anything about the skill and consistency level of a HI driver, the AI does what it is programmed to do. They do not "search & destroy" like sometimes human drivers do. But if your skill level does not match the AI's, it will happen that you brake way earlier then they and hence the might bump into you. Same is with racing lines. The closer the AI is at 100% ( or over ), the closer they are to the ideal racing line. Which may interfere with the HI's idea of an ideal line...I have also witnessed AI behaviour from a spectators point of view while in the pits. In certain series, they really fight each other as yoiu would expect from race-drivers. But still no divebombing on purpose, as I experienced from HI...I am not saying AI is perfect, but it is no better or worse then HI at a comparable skill level.

 

AI in most Sims are poop and non are perfect. But all are better than the lobbies I get in iracing...lol.

AMS2 AI did have its issues but they are largely gone. All drivers brain fart every now and then and I'd expect the same from the AI.

Yes the do some crazy stuff sometimes but I can race side by side with AI through multiple corners with no issues. Issues do occur if you don't treat the AI as drivers on the track. The vast majority of "AI are bad" Videos are players driving as if the AI is there as a guard rail on corners or they put the AI massively over or under the players ability and the AI either; run through them because they are being held up and the "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver" thing; or the AI are in the way because the player is 5 seconds a lap quicker.

Also player awareness is very much lacking in most AI complaint videos, if there is a gap and the AI goes for it and you don't notice it and pull across to the apex that's not the AIs fault.

I do have 1 AI gripe which comes up occasionally on forums and videos. That is comparative physics of the AI. They do not use the same handling model as the player, in dry or wet. The grip levels, the drag, car stability & inertia. Like if you do try pit maneuver you will be the one spinning, you bump their rear by mistake in a high speed corner and you're the one spinning. They drive through lakes like they don't exist etc.... That what I'd like fixed, but again every sim has this issue as well.

 

Poxy AI

 

Have you tried turning the agression up to like 80 or 90?
Its not perfect but definitly better.

 

One example of class where cars have bumped me in the rear is GT1's in Long Beach.

 

FYI setting up a quick race with just one or two ai can be a good way of checking your pace against theirs. Then when you pad out the grid it should (in theory) be in the ballpark and just require some fine tuning.

 

One thing - I don't mind that people have different opinions on AI. I have a moderate, but not severe issue with them. When I read "are we playing the same game?", or variations of "you're probably not treating them like humans", sometimes it comes across genuine, other times can sound dismissive/making assumptions (includes other threads not just this one which is not bad). Just thinking from the point of view of a person frustrated with their recent experience.

I think there's a grey area when it comes to "racing hard" and "adapting to the AI" because the later implies driving slower (some people have explicitly mentioned they are driving slow) and driving sometimes unrealistically (e.g. conceding a corner because the chance of AI going off-track on the inside is too high, even though you're well ahead). It's all way too anecdotal on both sides. How do we know those who have very little problem with AI just drive very slow (relative to their potential) and cater to the AI's behaviours "too much" to the point it's not relatively realistic? To clarify though, I'm not saying everyone who is fine with AI is slow and over-caters to AI behaviour, I'm just bringing up a question. Of course I believe that some people don't have issue with AI and are driving their normal way.

I do believe there are people who due to their very high skill can navigate around AI behaviours much better giving the impression the AI is okay, while others that don't have the same skill may, for example, not adapt as well to aggressive AI mid-turn and so can't move as easily. Not a good example, but hopefully gives the idea. I'm thinking more subtle/nuanced areas of racing.

I wish we could say "everyone with an AI complaint provide video evidence to analyse", but I think that's unrealistic, especially as the message won't reach everyone (e.g. those who come to the forum at a later time to report problems).

There just seems to be a lot of talk about AI (couple of individual threads, AI report thread, the update threads in the news section have both had discussions on AI) all between V1.2 and now.

 

Is the idea that people who are reporting problems are too slow for the AI?

I race GT3 mostly but I work my way through the pack from the rear so am not slower, but I experience all of the issues outlined in the OP.

 

The AI with the latest release have definitely improved a lot, but as Crimson said there's definitely some track specific issues need ironing out, and in fact have gotten worse. eg Pretty much every single race at Oulton now ends up with me being taken out by an AI colliding with a bollard at the chicanes at Foulstons and/or Hislops. Their AI line at these corners, which involves 2 wheels in the grass, simply doesn't take the bollards into account. No need to take a video of it.