1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Automobilista 2 V1.2.0.0 & Racin´ USA Pt1 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.2.1.4

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    6,091
    Likes Received:
    2,930
    Agree, but I suspect what is happening is that the progression of track grip (highest in R versus Q and P sessions) is having more effect than the factor for taking more risks and being quicker in Q.

    This is another part of the AI equation that has to be balanced. I think in real life, race pace is often lower than what AMS 2 assumes...as everyone is managing their tires and equipment in the race and waiting for the opportunities to push. The AI aren't that smart...and just drive to an algorithmic pace that is a collective estimate of risk management, equipment management, tire wear, track grip, and now also driver personality/skill.

    Any specific data on player pace versus AI pace across sessions is helpful--because even getting our cars balanced in this regard is tricky and needs to happen in parallel with getting the AI sorted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2020
    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Hi Marc, (+Crimson) RS,
    can you confirm if AI pace is affected by track rubber state? pls
    (testing heavy rubbered winter vs same in summer atm)
     
  3. sgsfabiano

    sgsfabiano Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    1,187
    I wonder how the AI is done in the other sims such as AC, ACC, iRacing. Even though their on track behaviour is not great, at least it feels like the AI is racing on the same dimension as the player.

    In AMS2 it feels like the AI is in a completely different universe. They brake extremely late in some corners, and get on throttle at alien speeds & traction out of other corners. And then they are very slow at some straights (if not all).

    I would blame it on simplified physics, but then are the other titles using full physics for their AI?

    Anyway, for the F1's racing vs the AI does not feel like racing at all, it is just like you are on a plane of existence and the AI on another one completely different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Beccobunsen

    Beccobunsen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    256
    Question for the TT Junkies:
    does anyone know for sure if the amount of fuel can affect the lap time?
     
  5. David Peres

    David Peres Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    119
    I think AC and ACC are the only sims where the AI uses the same physics as the player.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Gagaryn

    Gagaryn Out To Lunch AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    252
    I'm certain it doesn't. It is ignored. You can put in 1l and lap Nords in a GTE.
     
  7. Dolph

    Dolph Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    901
    I bet if you put too little in and run out of fuel, then it does :)
     
  8. Micropitt

    Micropitt Mediocre driver doing mediocre laps AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2020
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    544
    As far as I know, in TT everyone has 5L of fuel, regardless of your settings. You also start with optimum tire temp.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    9,131
    Likes Received:
    8,191
    Not totally sure, how much, but their laptimes will change according to track evolution of course. (So driving a very short qualy without P might even cause AI actually not just being faster in pace compared to player in the race, but actually hitting faster laptimes too)

    There is also tire degradation/wear/fall-off by player compared to AI, which can cause differences, for example. So you can keep up with them for some laps, but your car will then fall off just quicker.
    Often noticeable, when you hold the AI pace by 6-10 minutes and they start to drive away from you afterwards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  10. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    In time trial no I don't think so, but more generally?
    Yes but not much in cars that have a small volume fuel tank. In cars that carry 60 litres or more running full compared to empty has an impact. Not enough to make pit stops worth it though, especially as the limiting factor is the fuel flow rate during refuelling.. Same re fuelling for race distance. You might as well stick an extra 5 laps in as the penalty is negligible compared to not finishing or running lean.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  11. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    I run 20m qualifying and 30m practice but the ai are almost always faster in the race.. Also in qualifying there is not much improvement over the session (although there is some, and this has improved over the last few months). It's kind of sad watching the ai go around lap after lap in qualifying, posting laptimes that are totally without purpose. While not a technical problem, it detracts from the overall race event experience comprising of practice through to chequered flag. Hopefully some levers can be pulled to get this particular train back on the right tracks :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    9,131
    Likes Received:
    8,191
    Faster in laptime compared to qualy or faster than your race times?

    (I definetly agree, that AI often starts to run away after some time, because they're not falling off in pace as much as the player car in the race)
     
  13. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    They go faster in the race than their own best laptime in qualifying. I started making a note of specific tracks, times and difficulty and feeding back in the ai section but havent been on for a while.. the problem is that as a consequence every single race defaults to defensive mode, compounded by the issues you describe as the race progresses. This is obviously not a pleasant experience because of its predictable nature and the realisation that your own pace in qualifying (which often leads to difficulty adjustments) is actually undermining your race. If you adjust for race pace then qualifying is so easy its pointless to run it. But yeah, at race end if you look at the ai fastest lap compared to both their fastest lap in qualifying, its often significantly faster than what was your pole position time, and orders of magnitude faster than their own qualifying time.
    I cant state that its a universal problem because I havent raced on all tracks in all series obviously..
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    Just for ease of info purposes, heres a copy/paste of the two posts I made in the ai feedback channel. Anything in Italics is an edit made today;

    "
    Version: V.1.2.0.8
    Car: Formula Trainer
    Track: Brands Hatch Indy (although a common theme throughout)
    AI Strength: 105
    AI Aggression: 100
    Weather when the issue was observed: light clouds
    Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): race
    Ai are faster in the race than in Qualification, by approx half a second a lap. This results in permanently defensive races.

    Edit, just to pad out some more info-
    Fuel load was unchanged, same with setups etc between the sessions. Effectively the same setup for both. Multiple installation laps run in qualifying to ensure everything was up to temperature, pressure etc. My fastest lap in the race was a tenth or so faster than my qualifying time, the ai closest to me (a group of 3) fastest lap in race was half a second or so faster than my pole time.

    Version: Edit-same as above actually- I made a mistake in the original post with this item
    Car: Formula Trainer (basic)
    Track: Donnington National
    AI Strength: 105%
    AI Aggression: 100%
    Corner (if issue is corner specific): NA
    Session Distance: 20 minutes
    Weather when the issue was observed: light clouds
    Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): race
    As reported for Brands Hatch Indy earlier, similar phenomenon at Donnington National- Ai are faster in the race than in qualification. Fastest Ai qualification time 1:18:966, fastest ai race time 1:18:423.

    This means that all things considered, if you do a max performance lap in qualifying, on the same setup and with the same fuel as the race, you will be defensive all race as the race pace of the competition is a step up from their qualification pace. If you do a qualification setup that is faster (My edit today- so if you put less fuel on, aggressive setup etc to really blast qualifying and have adjusted difficulty to that pace..) then the problem will be compounded when you revert to your slower race setup."
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  15. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    606
    I find the opposite happens in a race. Even if I start on pole I cannot keep pace with the AI for the first 4 or 5 laps, they are just absurdly fast but then slow down after that time and I can pick them off and get most of my positions back. Not sure why they would be programmed like that? Never experienced it in any other sim.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    9,131
    Likes Received:
    8,191
    This can also be the case in the right/wrong situations. So initial AI pace is quite quick, but they're receiving more fall-off over time for reasons (like simulating a form of tire wear/fall-off). I would almost say, GT3 might be an example here.^^

    But these discrepancies over a stint are nothing new. It also happens in AMS1 already.
    F3 at Donington, i was often able to gain more than 5s of gap to the grid in a race and then AI was closing in again. Or same for Boxer Cup at Floripa.
    That it also happens the other way around wouldn't surprise me, tbh.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  17. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    Do you think that the discrepancies in pace between qualification pace and race pace will be resolved?
     
  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    9,131
    Likes Received:
    8,191
    Nobody here is a clairvoyant, but i wouldn't be particularly pessimistic about the chances, i guess. :D The topic is definetly under investigation and taken seriously and there are also ways to isolate causes.

    So if we notice something regarding this situation and wanting to help, best is to make screenshots of laptimes in race and qualy sessions to have an overview and pay attention to how AI behaves over a race, how gaps develop etc. and then reporting back in the AI threads.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    225
    were-gonna-need-a-bigger-spreadsheet.jpg

    ;):p
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  20. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    606
    I guess it is a problem because they are faster at the start of a race than they were in qualifying and they are leaving the pole car way behind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

Share This Page