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GT3 cars - why is BMW the fastest?

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Jeff Scharpf, Dec 30, 2021.

  1. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    So I'm racing the GT3 cars, and looking at the data, the BMW is the heaviest, and has the worst P/W ratio, yet it is always the fastest (just letting AI run around the track).
    The Mercedes, which as the best P/W ratio, is always at the back of the pack.
    The Porsche is mid to front, and the Mclaren is usually near the front.
    Is there an explanation about why these cars usually perform in this order? I always figured P/W ratio would be the main thing, but what other specifics am I missing?
    If I choose to drive the Mercedes, I need to set the AI down to about 95% to compete in the top 15. If I drive the BMW, I can compete with AI at about 100%.
     
  2. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Which track?
     
  3. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Hi Marius! This was at Bathhurst.. I guess I didn't think that it depends upon the track :)
     
  4. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Well Bathurst has an high altitude, so yeah. Turbo cars are faster there.
     
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  5. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks! Boy this game is incredible if it accounts for those details. So to confirm, I ran a quick race at VIR, and at that race the Mercedes dominated the front.. and the BMW was mid pack:)...
     
  6. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Just did a test on Monaco 100/50,
    on average Porsche in front then Merc, BMW and McLaren last
     
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  7. Jeff Scharpf

    Jeff Scharpf Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks Sax! I guess I will try to choose a good variety of tracks. I want to do a custom Championship. I was going to do GT3 but now decided to do GT4 :)..
     
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  8. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah there is only a general BoP for the class, no ACC-style specific BoPs for specific tracks. The Porsche and the Mercedes really lose out at tracks like Kyalami and Spa in terms of engine power, as the air is thinner and the turbocharged Mclaren and Bmw have forced induction which eliminated this issue.
     
  9. BartZ

    BartZ Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I'm not surprised about Kyalami as it is fairly high above sea level but Spa is close to sea level I think. If forced induction has an advantage there I'm not sure why.
     
  10. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Spa is ~370m lowest, ~470m highest above sea level. That's already significant enough for NA engines to lose some power. (Of course also weather would play a role IRL, not sure how much the game addresses that factor here)
    Also aero plays a role in barometric pressure.
     
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  11. BartZ

    BartZ Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Kyalami is about 1500. I live nearby. It's pretty high. NA cars suffer quite a bit here. I did a quick check cause 400m doesn't really seem very high to me. Red bull ring is 700. Nurburgring 530. Cascavel 750. Interlagos 800-this surprised me. Anyway I just picked a few and did a quick search. It does however look like quite a lot of tracks in AMS are very close to sea level so Spa is higher then many others.
     
  12. Roy Niessink

    Roy Niessink Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Is there any chance they all get leveled, especially for a multiplayer race, otherwise you first have to study on what car works best at which track, which doesn't make it fair in a ranked race, basically when you dont know this, and pick the "wrong" car, you're sort of scr*wed.

    Or add the option for people to choose if they want equal performance or realistic performance.
     
  13. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    There's no wrong car, tho. But I do admit MP-rating needs to know you're picking Merc at Kyalami and not penalize you because you're midpack or last pack due the performance hit, lol.
     
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  14. Roy Niessink

    Roy Niessink Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah, hence the qoutation marks, it needs leveling out, one thing i dont like about raceroom, when you are not into that as much and dont know which car to pick, you have absolutely no chance to even gain rating, hopefully ams2 doesn't go the same way
     
  15. jonathon

    jonathon Linuxer

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    I'd hope that ratings would be based on comparisons between data from the same car and track, and not rely on position, e.g. consistent clean laps being more important than ultimate pace.

    If rankings are all about finishing in the top 3 then you don't encourage people to stick around after the first lap - building ranking score by clean lapping for the rest of the race would mean there's a reason to finish after a spin and losing 30s to the leaders.
     
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  16. BartZ

    BartZ Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I don't think cars should be nerfed in MP based on altitude, Air temp etc. I like that realism :)
     
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  17. Dan44AFCB

    Dan44AFCB Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Don't race NA cars at Ibarra with turbo cars!
     
  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It happens in real life with GT3 cars, they have BoP categories for that. At Kyalami, some cars would struggle a lot, so considering to give a possibility to balance out cars isn't that unreasonable. The complaints are totally understandable. It's not ignored, but also no short term thing yet so i don't want to make any promises yet! :)
     
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  19. Roy Niessink

    Roy Niessink Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Well, as i mentioned an option to run a server with equal performance or without would be nice then, i like the realism as well, and i think its good for offline racing, but not in a ranked system, where you should be rated on your skill and safety, not how good you are at picking the right car for the specific track
     
  20. ramsay

    ramsay Active Member

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    What makes me scratch my head is when lobbies have fixed setup with full choice of cars in class with a huge disparity in performance at the track they are hosting making fixed setups rather odd to say the least. I assume the thinking is this will level the playing field when in reality setups are as much about giving confidence in the cars behaviour and how you prefer it to handle and this naturally will make people quicker. No setup though can bridge the difference in certain cars in class which can literally be several seconds per lap on certain tracks.

    Making the race fully wet or wet/damp is the only way to give any semblance of equalisation of BOP and not limit the choice of only 1 or 2 cars to be competitive or single car in class are two possible solutions, neither which though are ideal. At least the latter option would make more sense for fixed setups.
     

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