EV's In Sims - Discussion

The subject of EV cars in sims and general Has lead to some interesting discussion in Dev Update thread.
Such is the Impact of EV vehicles
A dedicated thread on a subject that will affect all of us Globally and maybe? ams2 is the least it deserves (imo)
The conversation so far totals some 21 pages the discussion is too large to copy over.
(pdf full conversation attached below)

Pls add your thoughts. in this thread
EV's In sims/rl etc
discussion origin in link
Automobilista 2 June 2022 Development Update
Extract '

"There is also the issue of powertrains. For years, if you get get your hands of a cosworth engine, you could pretty much be competive in any racing series you pleased. Now everything is so incredibly high tech that it might as well be anti gravity racing. F1 teams probably spend more on a single shock then a entire Nascar cup car.

2. ICE cars with open development like F1 or manufacture significance like IMSA should use a manufacture built stock block avilable in a street car avilable for less than $100,000 USD. What you do to it afterwords is up to you.

Dylan Hale said: ↑"

 

Thanx Maser for doing the first step on this.IMHO we do not need a third sim to simulate "tssss,tss cars" in AMS2 cause there are RF2 and Raceroom wich offer this.

 

Oh thanks D. I was also not aware of the rf2/R,room things. If the electric beasts made a noise1 I would look.
Sounds in motorsport at least are a massive part of the thrill, from driver to spectator.
I tried to copy over the total interesting discussion but unable due to file size, hence pdf. Makes an Interesting read when read as 1 discussion rather than scattered. interesting insights and thoughts as well as different views.!

 

I don't mind EV racing at all. The biggest drawback in my view is not the (lack of) sound, but rather that they're usually heavier than their fossil-fuelled alternatives, and I prefer to drive lighter cars if I have the option.

With the example of the rallycross 2022 FC1-X car, their mass is 1250kg which isn't too bad. Granted, the Group B cars raced in RX in the early 90s were lighter, but also slower.

Would I want AMS2 to get some EV classes? I don't really have any opinion, but I'd probably drive such classes if they were available.

 

While I think the RL development of EV's needs to happen, I'm not fond of driving them (so far at least) in Simulations. I crave more raucous ICE-engine sounds, not less. Even less so - the vacuum cleaner like noise of performance EV's.

Since the arrival of EV's in rF2, I believe I've driven them once or twice, for a short time. So I doubt I would spend much time using EV's in-game however, RallyX / Extreme-E class cars could be intriguing enough to give serious consideration.

I do recognize and appreciate that others may feel quite differently. So please don't take my view as anti-EV protest, just my thoughts.

 

yes i guess the weight is a big thing (literally)
Yes if we had them ams2 i would try, like yourself.
The shear power thats available is impressive, but until I drive 1 RL, I (and certainly for motorsport will prefer the Internal pop engine,) I have reservations.

 

btw. thanks All. for continuing conversation here! its a big subject.
have to go out back later.

 

If we're talking about Sim racing, then of course I would like a EV racing series represented, problem is, apart from Formula E, there really isn't any more?

 

I'm in favour of anything that drives the development of technology to detach us from fossil fuels. The last time I checked, our current known oil reserves with current levels of consumption will last a bit under 50 years. We'll probably find some more as the need becomes more pressing, and alternative technologies will hopefully reduce the consumption, but even then it sounds possible that anyone born today and eventually reaching the average life expectancy will see the end of oil during their lifetime.

Our most important functions, agriculture and logistics to start with, are still extremely reliant on fossil fuels. That needs to change before we start running out of oil. It is going to be a challenge, especially since the machines that do the work in those areas have higher requirements than a small car for shopping trips.

And that is the situation without mentioning climate change.

Hopefully the market and the laws of supply and demand will make it more of a natural transition than just hitting a wall in case political will fails.

Racing, I imagine, is one of the best testbeds for new tech to help with the transition to new power sources in transportation. I believe it's a good way to combine progress and entertainment and I hope people will become increasingly accepting of electric racing since it still seems to divide opinions right now.

This all considered I'd be totally fine with having EVs in AMS2, but I assume the schedule for 2022 is pretty much full already, so maybe in '23 or '24.

I really should start watching Formula E.

 

I think this series deserves much more credit than it receives. Some races are a real treat to watch.
Monaco last year was awesome.

And yeah, I agree. We really need to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.

Besides that, EV's are so much nicer to drive than ICE cars, especially the power delivery.
Also, the ability to drive the car with just one pedal gives a much smoother driving experience IMO.

 

In terms of pure electric race series we have currently active:
-Formula E and their
-Jaguar I-PACE eTrophy as support
-eTCR World Cup
-Extreme E (off road racing in extreme remote areas)
-World RX
-Nitro Rallycross

And confirmed for next year
-Electric GT Championship (done by the FIA - with a private eGT series, EPCS, still having to see the light of day after postponement)

 

Yes for sure.

I do like the idea of hydrogen ice, Jcb are making headway in this area.

I love (competitive) racing esp motor sports and did also watch a little of the series, for me personally I still find it odd (not just because i'm an old fossil myself) without the sounds! Maybe if some of the the push for alternatives was for more hydrogen high performance engines we could retain a major aspect of the entertainment.

I liked to hear more on peoples experiences.
I've considered an EV motorcycle for zipping around on as fuel here (most places?) has gone nuts. around £10 a gallon/5lts. in places.

 

I wouldn't be complaining if we had EV's in AMS 2 but I'd still prefer to drive loud cars. I just don't see myself enjoying enectrics as much. Although I wouldn't mind trying the VW's E supercar. Whatever it's called.
If I had to choose I'd rather devs included some more iconic "conventionals". Be that from yesteryear or recent.

 

Is Formula E still going? If so it receives very little (none) coverage. Maybe it's just the case in my neck of the woods.

 

I've driven a couple, had interesting experiences with each.

Test drove a Mach E Mustang when they first came out. It was fast of course, could squall all 4 tires on wet pavement. Probably a little too powerful for the average stupid and distracted American driver. But it costed like $77,000 and honesly, for that sort of money I wasn't that impressed with the over all car. There was nothing wrong with it for say, I just wasn't a fan.

I've also driven a Nissan Leaf. Honesly as a small town runabout, or a church shuttle, or someone working a 9-5, it was fine. Wasn't fast, quality was kinda muh for $35,000, but it was extremely quiet and comfortable enough, and you really can drive it with just the gas petal. My biggest issue was the battery longevity. This was a 2019 that was being daily driven and charged and it was already down to about 160 ish miles a charge from 210. (I live in a place that has both very hot summers and snowy winters, so batteries really suffer here)

I've ridden in a Tesla once and I honesly don't get what people see. The car was very sloppily built with large panel gaps, the paint was poorly done from the factory, interior was extremely basic. The software was cool and clearly the focus of the car. But man, the autopilot. That is TERRIFYING because when it works, it works really well. When it doesn't, you nail a curve at 45mph and bend all 4 rims (which the owner had happen during some road construction)

 

Motor racing faces an interesting future.

If the world goes for full alternative to ICE vehicles, there won't be much incentive to build gasoline or diesel refineries. Racing fuel thus will become extremely expensive and thereby functionally obsolete. Of course, won't happen this decade, but likely in 2040s. Perhaps sim racing will be the only way to enjoy petroleum based horsepower!

 

Didn't Le Mans 24h run on 100 % renewable fuel this year? Made out of residuals from wine production or something like that. At least that's what I've read before the event happened.

This kind of stuff should also help with the transition, but I don't think it can be scaled up to work as a global primary power/fuel source. Not unless they can invent some sort of insanely efficient super algae to produce the fuel from.

It could still work for specific cases like racing, so maybe there's some room for ICEs in the future.

 

You know, I've in all this discussion, no one has even brought up the idea of Syntheic fuel.

 

I guess it's a bit of a tangent from discussing EVs in sim racing which was the original topic.

I'll add a little more. Based on the Wiki article for algae fuel (enjoyed with a pinch of salt), I might have to adjust my view on biofuels and start thinking of them as a realistic large-scale option somewhere in the future.

Looks like the article is in need of some updating though. It references some year 2020 targets that the USA might be able to hit.

Biofuel might not be fully competitive yet, but the price of a fossil oil barrel will inevitably start going up at some point while the biofuel tech will keep getting better.

Algae fuel - Wikipedia

 

I'm all for bio / synthetic/ renewable fuels to keep ICE relevant, I dont like the idea of mass consumption of EVs as mentioned in other thread.