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Thoughts on time "Flashback" / "Rewind" feature?

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by hb22, Aug 17, 2022.

  1. hb22

    hb22 Member

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    Hi,

    I wondered what is the appetite for a feature where we can rewind time and jump back into the car a few seconds back in the replay? This was called "flashback" in recent codemasters F1 titles and "Rewind" in the old motorsport Grid titles.

    Whilst this is obviously of interest to new drivers who is exploring the limits and may not want a long race to be ended by a single driver error, I can see use cases for "hardcore" sim racers as well:
    • Rewinding after a hardware glitch (I have had an issue in VR mode where my headset will freeze for a second but the game will continue running, this can be race ending depending on when it happens - I am not blaming AMS2 for this, more likely something in my VR setup)
    • Rewinding after crash damage caused by erratic AI behaviour
    • Rewinding a corner to explore different driving lines
    What do you think ?
     
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  2. Enagee

    Enagee jim joneZ AMS2 Club Member

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    It's not a good thing to get used to...just like ghost cars.

    I've been playing F122 and it's a nice feature when a crash happens but soon as i jump to another sim my mind thinks this might be possible to rewind and I realize noo i can't rewind.

    For me, not a good habit as you'll want it on every sim
     
  3. hb22

    hb22 Member

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    I understand this, but I do think it is nice to have the option, and each simmer can then choose whether to use it or not - willpower may be required, a bit like you are already free to put the AI to a low setting if you really want!

    Personally I would restrict myself to using it on hardware glitches or damage from what I consider unrealistic AI behaviour, as described in my original post.

    I also think that if having the option did make the sim a bit more friendly for beginners that is a good thing - more users and more money into the industry is good for all of us :)
     
  4. FS7

    FS7 controller filters off please AMS2 Club Member

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    Flashback is a great feature for learning new tracks imo, if I make a mistake I can rewind just that one corner I missed and try again as opposed to restarting the entire lap. It's also a good feature to use offline against AI whenever they do something stupid.
    Obviously if people use rewind when trying to post laps in TT leaderboards their lap should be invalidated.
    Although I don't see it as a must have I think it's an interesting feature to have after Reiza implements other more important stuff. It's optional, it can't be used in multiplayer, so I see no issue in including it at some point and/or other players using it in their offline game.

    BTW, people who ask for mid-race saves cannot complaint about implementing flashbacks in the game. ;)
     
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  5. Gabriel "Pai" Legnini

    Gabriel "Pai" Legnini Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Not a bad thing if AMS2 wants to implement a career mode that can be punishing. Of course, there should be something, like Steam Awards or some cool secrets, for prizing the ones who can go the distance on high difficulty levels and no flashbacks used.
     
  6. FS7

    FS7 controller filters off please AMS2 Club Member

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    In games like Forza & Grid there's credits/xp bonuses for disabling flashbacks, maybe Reiza could implement something similar in AMS2 career.
     
  7. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It actually destroys/hinder your progress to increase your racecraft, skill and all that.
     
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  8. bravotangosix

    bravotangosix Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Definitely a no for me. Completely takes away any risk vs reward from sim-racing for me. Can't see it being high on Reiza's wish list either, if even on it at all.
     
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  9. jmac_the_man

    jmac_the_man Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Setting aside whether it's good or bad, a flashback feature would be incredibly difficult to implement in the Madness Engine because you'd have to undo the way the track dynamically changes (in terms of temperature, moisture, rubber, and dirt) by 15 or so seconds. The game doesn't keep an update by update (the track conditions are updated multiple times per second) history of track conditions that you could roll back to - it just has the current state.

    For the kind of game that AMS2 is trying to be, flashback is a really bad idea. But even if it weren't, flashbacks would be very hard to add to the engine, and you'd have to take time away from other features that would make the game better in order to implement them.
     
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  10. MasterLooser

    MasterLooser Greyhat DWORD Developer AMS2 Club Member

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    thats a feature for arcade/simcades

    time trial or youtube clips of you doing x laptimes wont be valid or everyone can just do the absolute best by just rewinding till you are happy with the outcome of each turn...

    as useless as the automatic driving through the pitlane

    imo u shouldnt even be able to change the difficulty, how likely can u go to the racetrack or kart track and just ask everyone to drive slower so u can win each race xD
     
  11. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I dont think its feasible in madness engine for the same reason that there are no saved games or skipping ahead in replay mode: Livetrack
     
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  12. Jugulador

    Jugulador Well-Known Member

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    The more features, the better... if it's optional to use.
     
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  13. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    And it is very arcadey, not something I would like to see implemented in a Sim.
     
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  14. Roar McRipHelmet

    Roar McRipHelmet Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I see both sides of this argument, but personally I don't think Flashback fits well with the kind of simulator AMS2 is trying to be.

    To elaborate a bit on this point:
    • Many situations where you want to use Flashback aren't caused right in the corner where you make the one big mistake, but rather is a consequence of a series of minor mistakes often originating one or more corners earlier, building up into one big mistake. Not to forget that they are often a consequence of mental fatigue and complacency.
    • Watching yourself in reverse does nothing except look fancy, and it breaks the flow so you need to rewind a bit further back to give your body time to settle back into feeling the car in forward motion again. Something a little bit better would be if you could reset to a few corners back and then start forwards from there.
    • Knowing that you have an undo option makes you drive more carelessly – bad racecraft.
    If AMS2 ever gets a "Driving School" mode, it would be cool to be able to practice a certain set of corners on each track. But having a Flashback feature in reverse motion is a bad idea for learning how a car feels through a corner, so you would have to reset to a point farther back instead.
     
  15. FS7

    FS7 controller filters off please AMS2 Club Member

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    I don't understand some of the arguments against flashbacks.
    Other people using it in their offline play won't affect the way you play your game (same goes for cockpit view, assists, damage, AI difficulty, etc), it cannot be used in multiplayer, if people use it in time trial the lap gets invalidated, it's totally optional, so if it's technically possible why not have it as an option for people who like it?
    Like I said before I don't see it as a priority but if it's possible to do it I wouldn't feel bothered by it if Reiza ever implements it, as long as they take care of other more important stuff first.
     
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  16. neal

    neal Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    what does it take to get through to you guys, it is not possible with the Madness Engine and the Livetrack technology. It is why replays will only every be simple start at the beginning and finish at the end no rewinding. sigh
     
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  17. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Because not everyone knows this
     
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  18. MasterLooser

    MasterLooser Greyhat DWORD Developer AMS2 Club Member

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    what?
    u can rewind lol
    and i very highly doubt the replay has any livetrack data stored, doesnt make any sense to save that for a replay. replays are just replayed by showing a bunch of points and the car moves along those points.
    calculating temps and other stuff in reverse also isnt that hard, so even if there was no previous data stored (which they could just do for a given timeperiod), u could just approximate it and get a close enough result, prolly never gonna be noticed anyways.

    i still dont think this feature has any purpose in a simulator
     
  19. hb22

    hb22 Member

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    This is my feeling as well. It is then strange to also see so many topics about "why is the user base so small", "why are the lobbies empty" if so many users strongly think it is a bad idea to add optional features that could make the sim more accessible to a wider audience!

    However those are good points about Livetrack and the amount of data to record. Do you know has Reiza commented on the feasibility of mid-race saves? This could be easier to develop whilst bringing most of the benefits of flashback, especially if it could be set up to auto save every lap (for example) and keep the last 3 save points - then we wouldn't need to intermittently pause and break immersion to manually save.
     
  20. jmac_the_man

    jmac_the_man Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It's because adding flashbacks to AMS2 would make AMS2 more of an arcade game and less of a simulation, and most people who bought AMS2 (and especially people on the message board that Reiza set up for fans) want it to be a simulator rather than an arcade game.

    Reiza could turn AMS2 into Call of Duty or Madden or something and get a wider audience to play online. But then it wouldn't be AMS2. It'd be something else.

    And that's before the fact that Reiza developers can either work on a flashback feature or work on something else (better physics, the right AI for oval racing, full course yellows, etc.) and a lot of the people on here would rather have the other features than flashbacks.
     

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