Alternate lines in the rain in AMS2...

James Baldwin, a sim racing esports youtuber that has done pro racing recently in GT3s, was asked what he finds that sims are the most unrealistic in, and he mentioned that rain in general is very unrealistic because in rain / wet conditions in sims, you drive on the racing line and that's the opposite of realistic because in real life, once the track is wet and you have wet tires, or when there's a lot of rain, you start avoiding the racing line completely.

I have a two pronged question. I've briefly tried the rain and storm weather settings in AMS2, and it seems to me that based on AI behavior and my own driving, you do race on the racing line. Exceptions would be very heavy puddling that you can avoid but the AI doesn't really avoid them so I mostly try to brace through it. So does AMS2 wet and rain conditions offer the need to find alternate lines? It doesn't seem so based on my very brief encounter with the weather?

Additionally, James didn't go into why rain conditions requires racing outside of the racing line. Why is that in real life and why don't sims often simulate that?

 

you only avoid the racing line irl when there has been rubber build up, rubber is slippery when wet

 

It depends on the amount of rain and how much the track is/was rubbered in.
Watch this video for example:
GT3 and GT4 race cars at Monza in the rain - they all seem to drive ideal line. Maybe there was no rubber built up before. I don't know.

A even better video:

 

This is entertaining and informative.

 

In my opinion, a wet rubbered-in line that forces players to find the wet line is the most significant physics feature that is still missing in AMS2.

However, if implemented, I'm not sure how well it will be received by players? A few masochists among us might love it, but I suspect that unless there is a significant visual indication that the wet track is oily on the ideal line (e.g. by exaggerating the surface polarization from the rubber oils) the majority of players will simply think that "cars suddenly spin without reason in the rain", "not enough grip" and so forth, and perhaps never consider driving off the ideal line to search for better grip. And they'll instead write comments on forums and other social media on how unrealistic it is to drive in the rain in AMS2.

Another related physics feature is oil spills from accidents. The same argument applies: It could end up being a stand-out feature when it comes to simulating real racing, but due to its novelty it could also be misinterpreted as being a physics bug unless players are explicitly informed that there is slippery oil on the track.

 

I would honestly love for this to be featured in the game somehow. If a racing line develops and it rains in the second half of the race, I would love for the drivers to need to stay off the rubbered line. I'm ngl, I'm slightly disappointed to see that AMS2 doesn't have the feature in their physics where you'd have to search for a wet line... hopefully in the future?

I wonder if iRacing's upcoming rain update would have this in their physics.

 

Ignore AI behaviour on wet tracks, they do not comply to player physics rules at all, so the way they take any line is irrelevant.

 

Not sure how it's simulated in AMS2 but in ACC rubber on wet track is simulated pretty well. In fact even picking up pebbles on wet track makes a difference in ACC. I think that's pretty impressive.

 

The other way to do it is to implement the visual signals as indicators in the car. Picking up marbles on your tire isn't "damage", per se, but it could use a similar indicator. There's also the traction control indicators built into the UI.

Additionally to that, you could put the indicator in the API that CrewChief and other programs read and get it to the user that way.

 

I think I remember something about flags and marshalls becoming a thing. This could be showed through the slippery track flag:

 

Wondering where you heard or read this. Pretty sure ACC does not simulate this. James Baldwin just won the SRO esports championship, I think he wouldn't be saying that wet conditions aren't the most realistic thing in sim racing games if ACC had the 'super slippery racing line' in the wet.

 

I believe there is a video on youtube of a developer showing the different grip levels on different lines in the rain. But it would be much easier to do it in ACC as the rain is not dynamic like in AMS2, cool feature still. I just hope Reiza first fixes the supper accelerated weather bug right now in custom championships, before adding new features.

 

the racing line is simulated both in dry and wet. ull have less grip on the rubbered part if its wet. i have seen the code portion and the resulting values.
i am not sure about the pebbles but that one dev kept mentioning it on stream that collecting pebbles improves grip on slicks in the wet(or reduces risk to hydroplane)

 

yes, it was Ari who did a lot of technical instructive videos on setups, physics and those wet grip levels.

 

You guys are right, I stand corrected. I know Aris has a 'Did you know' series of videos on his channel, so I had quick look and indeed he talks about this.

I love ACC but apparently I didn't get the memo There's a thread on Race Department from 2021 where some guy suggests to implement proper wet lines simulation in AC2 as in their mind no sim has managed to implement this. I looks like they didn't get it either.

Now the question is, why does the SRO champion not know about this? Another possibility would be that he never said that no sim racing game simulates this.

 

This discussion shows that AMS2 is hindered by the lack of its long-promised manual. The sim deserves an updated website that explains the huge amount of simulation that is going on under the bonnet of Reiza's so-called Project Cars 2 clone and how to benefit from it. Many of the Reiza developers' explanatory and helpful comments are buried in the forums, never to be seen again. The last Reiza video on v1.4 made heads turn because of the amount of detail it included. Current players and potential customers need a depository of reference material.

 

simulated or not, i always move off the racing line when starting to brake (if its already wet)
never really checked if it actually helps with slowing down. its just a habit

in turns u cant really avoid the racing line anyways or if u do, u probably compromise your speed so hard that its slower anyways

 

I agree, Reiza should show off a bit more and talk about the technical stuff. Renato's text just before v1.4 went live was a fantastic read, really enjoyed that. We need more of that.

Of course you can avoid the racing line, it's enough to stay a car width away, and if that is where the grip is there's no way you're slower in rainy conditions just because you didn't hit the apex.

 

Seems like there's something to dig into here...

I'd love for this to be fully implemented along with improved AI physics so that they act more like the player car in the wet, especially when on slicks as the rain builds up and through puddles...

As we just saw at Bathurst and Suzuka the racing line on a rubbered in track is the slow line, and ANY fan of motorsports will be aware of that simply by being a fan of the sport and paying attention to the commentators... So I highly discount the casual players who picked up a sim racing title for fun as being an important part of this equation... Most of the casuals who only pick up racing games for the street cars and their own love of cars will not know that the racing line is different in the wet, but they'll also not know much about racing at all (eg. what a yellow flag means or why you try and save fuel), so tend to stick to their Gran Tourismo's and Forza's... So worrying about their thoughts on a specific simulation feature isn't warranted IMHO...

I'll also add my voice to the "Reiza should show off a bit more" calls... What they have done to date is vast and is worthy of a complete explanation, it is something that the community can help with, especially those with youtube channels...

But a decent manual is needed, the issue to date with that is how much changes update to update... Maybe we could have the community manager and a couple of helpful community members collect all of the important information hidden in the forums and put it all in one thread for the time being... Then when Reiza is confident that they can put out a manual they will...

 

I assume the simulation of track state is there to eventually be exploited for realistic wet line simulation.

But right now the level of grip in the wet has been completely broken. Cars with "all-weather" tyres are just completely undriveable in any kind of rain, try for example the Mini 1965, Copa Fusca or the VW Polo/Virtus. Other cars like Copa Trucks, M1 Procar, Group A, GT1, FRetro G1 or Group C just don't feel raceable even with wets on in the rain. Keeping it on track is a chore in every corner and there is no hope to keep up with the AI, and I'm talking rain not thunderstorms here. To me, the variable weather racing has effectively been removed from the game, which is a damn shame.