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Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Arcadium

    Arcadium New Member

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    However that's exactly what the developer is saying in the start post of this thread.

    Clipping = loss of detail in Force Feedback. You don't need to be a developer to see if this is the case on your wheel if too much force is applied, this graph can be enabled in-game and I use it to tune force feedback for detail instead of just resistance.

    [​IMG]

    This example is on a Brazilian Stock Car on Donington going through the Craner Curves, which are high speed corners where the force usually peaks on most cars. The Red Bar shows the percentage of clipping of all the force that has occured on your wheel. You can also see clipping occur on the line in the graph, where it flat lines This can be either on the bottom (like you see here or on the top (depends if you are going left or right)

    You are aiming for the red bar to be empty by preventing not to flat-line or if it does, for the smallest time possible. If that red-bar is filled (to much) that means you are loosing details in your force feedback and you are only experiencing resistance on that point.

    Now I don't own a G27 wheel so I can't tell if clipping does indeed occur and most important if the settings you have work for you that's perfect, i'm not saying it's wrong. However if you are seeking ways to experience the most detailed feedback you can have with your wheel this tool will help you a lot and I hope my explanation will help.
     
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  2. Koinden

    Koinden New Member

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    So, after an evening of testing I've managed to get the G27 feeling better than I had previously with the new FFB profile. I'm sure no G27 is created equally so maybe this works for you, maybe not, but it's worth a shot if you're having problems with the new profile.

    At least for my wheel there seems to be a few ways of doing this, either go for a High LFB/Lower Gain or High Gain/Lower LFB. Personally for me I felt that the higher LFB (50-70) gave quite a dull feeling in the middle ground and lost a lot of details, I also couldn't feel much under braking, with it almost feeling like a middle force boost rather than low. When trying to go for any sort of middle ground with the values this resulted in both a loss of detail and weight.

    After a good while the best I found was LFB at 15 and Gain at 100. It was the best I could get and then after another race started playing a little with the FX, with this previously left at 50.

    The FX setting made a massive difference for me, this might be because the G27 struggles with really low forces but the FX brought in a lot of detail, especially with the suspension and under braking. If I went too far with it then the road noise starts coming through too much.

    It's really starting to feel good now. Especially under compression, which I think shows that having a higher gain than 100 (at least for my G27) could yield even better results.

    Settings are: Gain 100 , LFB 15, FX 75
     
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  3. pcraenme

    pcraenme Member AMS2 Club Member

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    @Koinden With a Gain of 100, don’t you get a lot of clipping? I ended up with 70/80/40 on my G27.
     
  4. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    The first post has not been edited since the last update, is there an official updated post to inform us on what the recommendations are with the new FFB set ups for the different wheel types?
     
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  5. Fizzy

    Fizzy Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    So you don’t “know absolutely for sure”. You “think” or you “believe”. It’s different. As is everyone’s taste in FFB. Just because a small sample of people report an experience, it doesn’t make it a hard fact.
     
  6. Johnny Boy

    Johnny Boy New Member

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    can you tell me your settings in TM control panel and ingame ffb settings?
     
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  7. Koinden

    Koinden New Member

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    No, I didn't notice any clipping. That said, I was going by feel when I was setting it up last night as I know the limits pretty well from having the wheel for 8 years. I only tend to use the on screen meters when fine tuning specific cars (R3E for example) now.

    The fact that it was noticeably stronger under compression also makes me feel like it's not hitting the limit under a normal corner, but still weaker than R3E and AC which shows no clipping is happening.

    If I get the time tonight I'll fire it up and run it with the meter to be sure. I was however getting a lot of clipping with gain at 100 and a higher LFB value if that helps, I had to lower LFB down to 15.

    Perhaps with my wheel being 8 years old and with almost daily use it's weakened it? I don't know if that's possible with a gear based wheel but I remember quite well that GT5 was pretty harsh on the feedback, especially on the gravel and snow tracks.
     
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  8. Gringo

    Gringo Well-Known Member Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I have a TM500RS. Recently I removed all the drivers and installed the latest versions. The TM control panel has default values 60/100/100/100/100 strength/constant/periodic/spring/damper.

    (My previous TM CP setup was 80/100/100/0/20 and Im pretty sure that made for a poor experience with AMS2. I have been finding FFB a bit lacking in AMS2 compared to AMS1 until now.)

    I use these default values now with my AMS setting at 85-95 gain, 35 low force boost, 50 FX.

    I use 95 gain for StockV8, and 85 for the Trainer Adv. Im sure from car to car the gain will need to be tweaked a bit, for your personal taste and some variation in the track/car used. If you find your FFB is flat, lacking feeling then REDUCE the gain.

    I would start with 0 LFB and 100 gain... setup the gain for a good feeling and nearly 0 clipping in the ffb meter, then increase LFB in 10% steps, if you notice a fair amount of clipping then reduce the gain 5%. At some point increasing the LFB will not have an effect (or have a negative effect, you loose the road noise details or otherwise a flat feeling), you want to stop at that point and perhaps reduce LFB 5%. This is how I setup, everyone has their ideas on how to manage the FFB, and just my opinion :)

    Using the FFB meter in the telemetry hud makes it fairly straight forward to set the gain/lfb levels so you dont have any/much clipping inside AMS2. The red bar on the right should have just a little bit of signal in the high speed corners. After a bit of trial and error you will figure it out.

    If you still find you cant get a nice feeling, then the issue should be with your wheels control panel settings or possibly you should delete your AMS2 user profile and start again.



    Edit :: I should mention (imo) I get the feeling there are two solutions to the gain/lfb equation. That is I found that 65/65 feels very similar to 95/35 and you get very similar results in the ffb meter. Is one solution correct and the other wrong? Im not so sure. It would explain some of the different numbers that users are coming up with and on the same hardware.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  9. paddler

    paddler Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thx. Will try later. I have a TM500RS as well. Glad to see someone else havung that wheel at last.

    My setting: 42 8 48 TM standard but force at 100 instead of 60.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  10. pcraenme

    pcraenme Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I think my wheel is also around 8 years old. I tried your setting and it feels quite ok, however in some occasions my wheel rattled a bit more. I checked the Telemetry HUD and noticed some minor clipping, but not very much. I will keep my setting, also because I think on these Logitech wheels Reiza recommended using higher LFB values, even up to 80, which was also used in AMS1 I believe.
     
  11. Koinden

    Koinden New Member

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    Thanks for trying the settings, yeah I noticed a little bit of rattle but nothing too crazy. Perhaps the difference comes down to the track/car combo as I've only tried my settings on a handful of each so far.

    I can't remember what I previously set for AMS1, I haven't really had any serious time on that sim since getting VR. I could always re-install it to find out I guess. I know Reiza recommend the high LFB approach, but at least for me and with the combos I tried I found the lower LFB (about 10-20) to be better. All I know is that it's enjoyable for me to race with those settings and a higher Gain and FX so I'll keep with them for now, well at least until the next FFB update rolls out!
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  12. Carlos Panades

    Carlos Panades New Member

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    I use as shown in the both pics.
    Reason is, in my equipment, (OSW Small Mige 20nm)
    if I use Gain only (LFB and FX off) I can't figure out what the rear of the car is doing.
    LFB higher than 10% put some "noise" in the wheel's axle.
    FX higher than 18-20% makes the car too planted on ground and car get's too controllable lol
    Would be nice to know your settings too.
    01.jpeg 02.jpeg
     
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  13. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks mate.

    Edit-outdated figures
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    It was never represented as a hard fact--go back and read what I wrote. I was simply trying to be helpful because a bunch of users of that hardware on here were happy, which I clarified in my reply in case it wasn't already obvious.

    Why are you belabouring this point instead of contributing something useful, since neither you nor I have a Logi wheel?
     
  15. Chin

    Chin Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Actually, much like suspension, you do want a small amount of clipping in the highest load conditions. If you don't hit the red at least a bit on each lap, you don't you are leaving some feedback on the table.
     
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  16. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Hmm. I think I might switch over to 75/15/0. It uses the potential of my base much more. I am now more into the 40-90 range, instead of 20-60. I do not see or experience any clipping. With my F1 rim the GT3/F1 cars play lovely. The Sprintcar is a bit heavier and raw, but I like it. The Stock Brasil I can feel the car better and I know when it's going to break out. The cars with my round rim also drive better. A tad more resistance so I can feel the car and the center. I also feel more what the cars are doing. Might even switch to 75/0/0, but then the center in the V8 and Stock Brasil become a bit vague and it's harder to save them.
     
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  17. Gordie

    Gordie Active Member

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    Yeah, 75 seems to be the best Gain setting for the CSW 2.5 and like you I have LFB at around 20 - 25.
    With FX at 35 the engine vibration is a little too high for my taste, did modify the Custom file and set engine vibration to 0.2 and that was so much better but unless I raise the FX to 90 I feel very little tyre scrub. Hopefully the new update will remedy that.
    Also had a play with the Minimum Force setting and while it did help with straight line forces, bumps and scrub, it was a bit clunky/spikey, really needs some smoothing that can be applied there.
    Looking forward to the next update :cool:
     
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  18. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Active Member

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    Minimum force is important and I think I remember they will put it as an accessible setting. That will remove our "dead zone" for wheels which need that. My T500RS (to not say all T500RS according forums) have around 8% dead zone, so any forces below will not be felt on our wheel.
     
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  19. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    My read is that a very small amount will be added into New (but not Old) in the background mix. That's the way it was done initially (before being withdrawn). I do not expect to see a slider for it.
     
  20. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I hope not, without a slider min force is useless. Every wheel has it's own deadzone and needs a different min force.
     
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