What's up with the AI?

To call R3E arcade is just, well, ...never mind.

 

If you are going to have the level of simulation that the player car demands in AMS2, there is no way a modern PC could replicate the same level of physics for all cars on the grid. Any racing game that uses the same physics for all cars has a pretty light physics load relative to AMS2, so I think it's unfair to call it a 'rude error'.

 

As I said before, some games propose that the bots do not have the same physics, which caused innumerable problems with the AI (braking out of place, having a totally abnormal top speed, not respecting the place of the player etc etc).

This is why so many people complain that the cars always seem to have the DRS built in or that the bots are very slow in the corners.

I understand that we all want the best "simulator" so AMS2 has to target ACC and RF2 since it has the best AI and get as far away from RR3 as possible.

For example in ACC (whose bots have the same physics as the player) you can be 4 or 5 laps chasing and looking for the space for overtake until you get it.

Boring?. nope, not at all, I want to feel the closest thing to being a real pilot.

Anyway, I fully trust Reiza since Game Stock Car was my favorite game for years, with a very good AI.

 

If there is something which demostrate that a "real physics" AI is no different nor beneficial than a typical AI, these are AC and ACC.

AC AI is in no way better than any other sim out there, it's even worse in some aspects. ACC AI started as competent, but having no awareness of the player, and a punt fest in braking zones, but it at least raced the player and others AI cars.

Now it's miles better in awareness, but it don't fight anymore, it's a car train all the race. ACC AI is very good if you want training to go to MP in the future, but it has no special value for a SP simmer. Also, it has super human and super stability control=ON abilities at recoveries, so I think it runs same player's physics at some extent, not full physics. AI cars are bricks under contact, while player's car feels like a feather.

I'm sorry but no, at this moment at least, these kind of AI is no better than what other games have.

I was doing a championship against AI in RF2 last week, Formula Renault 3.5 2014 car, at least 7 full weekends at different tracks.

RF2 AI is way better than AC/ACC. It races, it takes multiple lines to defend, but sometimes it loose its abilities to know where player's car is, so crash. Plus, it's not consistent from track to track. Some modded tracks are a nightmare. In general, ISI tracks are more consistent tough, and it's understandable.

I can't comment on RR3 because I don't race there since long time.

So, at this time, there is no clear advantage by coding a full physics AI versus a traditional one, there are a lot of flaws and inconsistencies both sides. And that's a thing I miss a lot: good AI for singleplayer. There were games with a lot better AI than current games, and I'm speaking from long time ago. It's a thing which has seen no serious improvements compared to all other aspects of simracing.

I'm here, with great hope AMS2 would deliver soon or later, because I had good moments with AMS1 racing the AI. If Reiza would be able to code different racing lines in order the AI can defend and attack, it would be great too.

 

For me RF2 has the best AI out there, like you say there are some mods out there with terrible AI, but in general I have the most consistent and enjoyable AI fights with RF2. RF2 AI block the inside, they are perfectly aggressive, they block switch backs, they space out, the lead cars are consistent in lap times, the contact physics are awesome, slipstream effects are exciting and the performance and aggression sliders have so much variance to cater to all skill levels. If AC fixed the tyre model on kerbs and contact physics, it could have been right up there with RF2, but as it stands AC AI races get me frustrated, because the slightest touch sends you flying or if you abuse the kerbs / ice blocks then say bye bye to facing forwards. R3E has greatly improved its AI and you can get some decent races. It is the best for car contacts and door banging without cars flying off the track. I do somewhat agree R3E AI can feel arcadey at times, not in the way it fights you one on one, but so often it’s like the AI groups up, forms unrealistic clusters and creates walls that you can’t get around and in that sense I get why people say it’s arcadey. The R3E AI only really spaces out once you get in front of them, when they are in front of you, they do more often than not form a wall across the track and allow the lead car to break a way. Then when you chase down the lead car, you can catch them really easily even at 100% AI skill. The only car in R3E that doesn’t do that in my experience, is the new Porsche GT3 Cup car. This is encouraging as it’s brand new and I find the AI for that car to be the best in R3E. No one will ever get AI perfect, but as long as it’s fun, fair, challenging, consistent and feels like you are in a race, then you have an enjoyable and fun experience. As things stand with AMS2 AI, they don’t have any elements I have listed above, but I believe by the end of the summer Reiza will get AI close to greatness!

 

Great post. Yeah, back in the day the AI were better it seems. MP was finding it's feet in games that had it, so AI was very important. Since then, there have been less and less of an emphasis on the single player mode. Devs are catering to the MP scene, and that's across genres. Having said that, I'm sure there are many obstacles and variables that preclude great AI programming. Every game engine presents it's challenges, and let's be honest, coding has evolved too. I have no idea what challenges Reiza are facing with the Madness engine, hoever I am confident that they will over achieve in this endeavor. They've already made AMS2 one of the best driving sims out there. I have nearly all the latest racing sims (tried iRacing, screamed obscenities and deleted it. Felt like I was driving an ice cream truck with slicks, in the rain,) and I only fire up RaceRoom and AMS2.

 

rFactor2 AI: All you need to know-
To get by rFactor2 AI feint in one direction, go in the other direction. Overtake accomplished.

 

Do the folks at Reiza ever sleep? Just did a Sprintcar race at Ibarra post Hotfix. AI 100/50. No more going from 16th to 5th or there abouts. AI were solid in All corners. Not super fast, not super slow. It used to be possible for me to beat AI here with these settings. I was in 6th after 8 laps (ten lap race) but spun and dropped to 8th. That's where I finished. What an amazing race! Going to try a couple other combinations there to see how other classes drive at this venue with these settings. Especially the race starts. It appears to be improved. Time to test the Camaro. They seem to be the forgotten class thus far. Also, the P3 class was horrible at starts. Going to test that as well. Man, I already have hundreds of hours in. Just wow!

 

My latest:
1. Camaro's are now a class I can race with. Seems balanced. At least at Ibarra.
2. Stock Cars and V8's Seem balanced. That isn't new.
3. What shocked me was the P3 class. They've become very fast and dive bomb the hell out of you. It's like the aggression meter is turned to crazy! I've never had to change my gear ratios against them before. If I don't they blow my doors off. Did I mention they dive bomb? Well they do....a lot...no kidding.
Disclaimer:
This is a result of testing only at Ibarra, since it's my favorite track and the wheel feedback is lively.
Thought Share:
I really really love this sim. So many different types of car classes. Sure, I'm chomping at the bit for some GT3 action, but for the first time in a sim that has them, they may not be my favorite. It's good to be a gamer. Not since the TOCA and GTR sims have I been so excited about a racing sim! My old heart may not be able to take much more. Well, damn the torpedoes!

 

Hey Siri, you take control of all the other cars.

With all this AI development going on around the place, it's a pity some of it hasn't found its way into computer entertainment.

 

Interlagos has some serious issues with AI speed, at least with a few classes I've tested there.

 

I’ve had some issues with the AI under braking in turn one at Imola. If I hold my braking line on the outside they tend to come over and knock me off the track.

Im a little skeptical that we will have good AI unless they run the same physics. I’d be happy to reduce the ffb rate from 720hz to 360hz if that would help let them run the same physics.

For me, raceroom and ams have the best AI. Raceroom slightly better with its adaptive AI. Followed by rf2 which is a bit of a mess right now and ACC/AC which are a distant last with their generic and lifeless AI.

 

This is at Red Bull Ring. AI strength set to 0%. I started at 20th, could only get to 13th or so. At 0% surely I should be able to get to 1st?

 

I had a good race at Kyalami with the Ultima race car against AI @ 100%, but in the other hand, same as you with P3 class at Oulton. The Rocco's are extra crazy there, and in their crazyness they even skyrocket directly to the grass/gravel traps. Seems like Maldonado and Kvyat on their bad days took part in my race driving the Roccos. Watching the replay was funny to see them trying to fly past you and then go flying to the gravel

 

Yeah, they are fast at Imola and will crucify you at turn 1. I did try that one yesterday with the Stockcars.

 

Tried yesterday. They're still "dumb" and slow as hell everywhere.

 

Bless you all at Reiza! The P3 Roco at Oulton Park International is now fair and fun to race with AI, thank you so much! I’m racing S 100% and A 50% and it’s now quality AI racing. I’m no longer constantly checking my mirrors scared stiff I’m about to get punted on every corner and the AI no longer unfairly pass me on the straights with their bonus DRS effect. I have noticed if I start in pole position the AI is well behaved, but if I start in 5th or 7th the AI tend to have crashes and incidents with themselves regularly. This morning I was chasing down 2nd and 3rd place cars and they tangled with themselves, both got air born and flew side ways off the track at Oulton Park giving me two cheap positions. Thank you for reading the forums, investigating issues we report and indeed fixing them. To enjoy the Roco’s at Oulton Park against the AI has made my weekend. Thank you ! I can’t wait to test my other favourite car track combos with AI this weekend !

 

I really don't have fun racing the AI. They are inconsistent and brutally ignorant to the players car. Overtaking them is hit and miss. But most problematic is the aggression level they have, they just bump into you if you are in the way, if you change line, overtaking in the most risky manner possible. As mentioned some post above - in ACC you can literally use the AI to train for close racing and learn the track, where you can pass, how it's best to defend, and all this just running a group of 5 cars. With the Safety Rating there, if it was implemented here i literally would be with 0 points.
I am looking into RF2 for some time, still not owning the game, but man is the AI here useless. I don't know if it's car / track dependent or not, but what i tested it's a bump fest and absolutely not helping to prepare for a race or even learn how to drive in a pack. I think we are at least several months away from seeing a real improvement in the AI if this will actually happen.

 

Not to go off-topic here but dont get rFactor2 until they fix the AI throttle input issue! I got rF2 recently for the same reason, I like multiclass so creating AI endurance type races is great but this issue completely ruins the immersion (when AI goes around a corner it literally sounds like a pack of ducks), absolutely cannot understand how they overlooked it and the issue has been here for about a year. Its OK during the actual race but watching a replay from either cockpit or outside is terrible.

 

It all depends on what you are looking for. ACC's AI is good for training purposes, but it's not good for single player racers because it doesn't present any challenge at close racing.

As mainly a SP racer, I very much prefer rFactor and AMS AI styles, because you can set them to train, or to race against.

I agree AMS2 AI needs tweaking, and it is tweaked on every EA release. I think when the level and aggression sliders will be working, we will be able to finetune the AI to cater all tastes, from training to door to door racing.