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Clutch, Autoclutch, H shifter

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Georgeagea, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. Georgeagea

    Georgeagea New Member

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    Hello. My first message here. I'm loving this game.

    One of the first things I did when I bought AMS2 was checking how the clutch works, and if the annoyances of Pcars2 clutch system have carried over to AMS2.
    To my delight, it wasn't the case. Clutch worked perfect! It was needed when auto-clutch was turned off. I couldn't go off the line without the clutch. I couldn't use a manual car without my clutch using the H shifter.

    Now to my surprise and sadness, I discovered yesterday that this correct behaviour was changed to the wrong behaviour of Pcars2. Not sure if it was 0.9.6.1 or the one before.
    Yesterday, with auto-clutch off, i drove the Caterham, a manual H shifter car, using the paddle shifters on my wheel! I could even drive it using my H shifter without the need for any clutch! Turning auto-clutch on and off didn't basically change anything; the car remained driveable without the clutch.
    That's exactly how Pcars2 behaves and one of my biggest gripes with it.

    May I ask what is going on here?! Not sure if it's a bug or if it is intentional (as Ian Bell used to respond when asked about this issue).

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Tried offline again a couple of days later and it was working perfectly as intended. So maybe it was an online lobby settings thing. Thx for the replies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  2. Calvin i Evans

    Calvin i Evans New Member

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    Ive notice the change and would also like to know as well. Is this a bug? Im using an Xbox 1 gamepad.
     
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  3. Turco

    Turco Member AMS2 Club Member

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    yeah, this issue sucks big time. I hope they roll back to what was before... the decision they made here makes no sense at all.
     
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  4. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah I noticed this on a few cars. It has been present for several days. I mentioned to some other players but they adorably thought it was present in the cars in real life OR that there was no laptime advantage. Who am I to correct them? I just hope someone in the dev team adjusts this out. When was the first time you noticed this @Turco
     
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  5. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    duplicate
     
  6. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Hi Neil!!!
     
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  7. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Which Caterham? Two of them are sequential and two are H-pattern. Try the Chevette or Uno or some car we know for sure is H-pattern to see what's what. Nothing has changed on my end except a couple of the updates turned auto-clutch back on even though I didn't ask for it or want it.
     
  8. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I think also this is dependent on cars, some actually do have clutch systems where to don't need to lift. BTCC, for example, they have a clutch system where you don't physically need to lift. I think it's the same for F3 cars as well. I'm not running autoclutch and still don't need to lift, I don't recall what that system is called but there is a race system/gear/clutch system out there. If I Google it and find it I'll share it here.
     
  9. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    In any case, selecting auto clutch in the menu enables auto-lift and auto-blip. Not that this is relevant information to this thread. That is, of course, unless there is a bug turning it all on in some cars where it shouldn't be, once someone touches their paddles as OP seemed to be suggesting
     
  10. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    My point was Neil, it could be a bug, most likely is, but they could have synchromesh gearboxes. Personally I don't know, but that was the terminology I was looking for. And F3 cars have a semi-auto sequential system. Semi auto meaning non lift. Hopefully if this is wrong for the caterhams they'll fix it, make sure to report it in the relevant physics section. If you can't, me or Marc will for you.
     
  11. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I understood your point. Maybe the caterhams do have those. I never inferred an f3 does/doesn't just to be clear. I also don't think an ultima has one either.
     
  12. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Just tried the caterham academy at brands, auto clutch off, could not pull away from grid without using clutch, same for the escort 1600 in pc2 no engine start and could not pull away.
    Both would have synchromesh boxes and could be driven once under way as in real life (without use of clutch) like when your clutch cable breaks. Done it many times. Though irl you would have to lift off gas.
     
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  13. Cfst

    Cfst Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    There may indeed be a bug. I noticed this exact thing in a few cars, the one that really stuck out to me most recently was the Ultima.
     
  14. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah, I also think I said at the time, I THINK it has one, just as it happens to be a race spec car. Unless you were talking about the road going version? Also just remember this isn't even V1.0 yet - as long as things get reported they'll get sorted!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  15. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    Just want to clear up a few misconceptions.

    Synchromesh is a system to synchronise the rotational speeds of the shafts in a gear box. To work it requires that the input shaft is decoupled from the engine so that it can freely change the rotational speed of the input shaft. This is done using the clutch. If you didn't use the clutch you would have to wait for the engine to get to the rpm at which the shafts in the gear box reach equal rotational speeds. At any other time you will get grinding gears. Synchromesh doesn't magically fix that. If a manual car is allowing you to shift in game without the clutch then it means that automatic clutch is enabled.

    There are many types of semi-auto / sequential gear boxes, and very few of them require no throttle modulation when changing gear, whether this is done manually or by the ECU. Sequential systems do not change gear instantaneously and if the throttle is not modulated whilst changing gear the force of changing the engine rpm quickly is transmitted to the wheels and causes instability.

    In the case of real F3 cars the sequential system has a manual foot operated clutch: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - Wikipedia

    "For the transmission gearboxes, all FIA Formula 3 European cars currently use an automated manual transmission with 6-speed gearbox operated by paddle shifters since the 2012 season. The clutch of all FIA Formula 3 European cars are CFRP 3-plate clutch operated by foot-pedal."

    I expect the sequential system will be dog ring based, so whilst you can change gear in these without the use of the clutch it will lead to accelerated wear, and you would still need to blip the throttle to match gear shaft rotations.

    As in PCars2, the auto clutch option has a number of other features such as throttle modulation like @Cfst mentions. This helps the stability of the cars whilst braking and changing gear at the same time, and whilst accelerating out of slow speed corners. It is a definite benefit to have it on even with sequential gear boxes.

    It should be noted that there are two places that automatic clutch can be set in AMS2, and they both need to be disabled for automatic clutch not to be working. These can be found in game options and controller settings.
     
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  16. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to try with my H shifter but with paddle shifters and both auto clutch settings set to off, you cannot change gear without the clutch, it just grinds.
     
  17. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks Jabbah, the only reason why i brought up the side convo was me and neil were discussing over at NaC discord channel. Good to know that info so thanks for that, i was only lead to believe that as having seen onboard footage of F3 cars not lifting when shifting, which is obviously quicker, so wrongfully assumed that that was par for the course. Clearly IRL they need to repair their transmission systems a lot! (Again, side discussion) But auto-clutch is not this huge performance gaining aid people are saying it is. After all, we raced those Opala's for 45mins with auto clutch on, you didnt like it, so then you went and turned it off and then dropped the WR by 1second. Plus i never run autoclutch and things are great for me. So adoreable or not (quoting Neils post), i dont seem to be loosing any laptime advantage. But as previously mentioned, if it aint right for the Caterhams then they gotta fix it!
     
  18. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Please try it again as today its seems to have been corrected and you will need your clutch.
     
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  19. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    The time it takes to change gear with auto clutch on depends on the car. For the Opalas it makes a huge difference as they are slow manual cars, autoclutch takes a long time for these. But with something like the F3 it makes very little difference to the shift time but will add in clutching and throttle blips which make it a lot more stable and so will probably gain you time over someone who isn't using it. For a true "NAC" it should really be off, but then what do you do about the people who don't have a H shifter and/or clutch?
     
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  20. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah plus we've got controller racers. Plus how do you police it, we've got all the assists off on game lobby, but then you're entering into a gentleman's agreement that no one has it switched on in their controller settings. I think the vision of the club has changed as well. It's more relaxed now. More about just having fun.
     
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