P1 Class Balance of Performance (large difference in performance between MetalMoro AJR and Ginetta)

Loving all things prototype I decided to do a bit of prototype racing the other day, and in preparation for that I did a lot of test runs on Cascais (a lovely track that I hadn't really driven in a long time).

First off were the MetalMoro AJRs. The Chevy with its amazing, roaring V8 sound, the Honda with its turbo-charged 4-cylinder, the screaming Judd V10 and of course the V6 Turbo that sits somewhere in the middle.

After having gotten a good feel for all of these I was surprised how close they were in terms of lap times, despite the considerable differences in top speed, braking ability and cornering speeds. Overall I prefer the Chevy V8 the most because it's so well balanced, though the Judd V10 is also a lot of fun. The Honda-powered AJR feels a little sluggish on the brakes and through most turns, but oh boy does it fly down the straights! The V6 Turbo was the odd one out for me, being somewhat in the middle of these but with some odd behavior that feels like the center of gravity isn't where it should be (?).

Anyway, despite a personal preference the overall lap times were within one or two tens of one another for me, and that came as a real surprise. I reckon these prototypes are as close as possible to the real thing, and it shows how well the balance of performance and rules seems to work (despite differences in electronics like TCS and ABS, especially).

And then there's the Ginetta G58... In terms of its design, performance and feel it really comes across as a typical modern LMP2 car - the cockpit view isn't too great, the cornering feels slightly unnatural and forced at times (like there's huge amounts of downforce but much less mechanical grip)... and the engine output feels slightly anemic. Now I'm not saying the car is bad or no fun, because that's definitely not the case! But even after doing some adjustments to the default setup (which I also did for the AJRs) my lap times were severely lacking compared to the MetalMoro. In fact, I was missing around 2 seconds per lap on Cascais. It's not bad, but the AJR is just something else, really.

So here's what I noticed: The stats of the Ginetta are worse than the AJR (both weight and power, iirc) and it doesn't have DRS, either. So, here are my questions:

1. Why the huge difference? Assuming that all P1 cars are as close to the real thing as possible, what do the rules say? Is there any advantage the G58 has over the AJRs? Fuel consumption maybe?
2. Are drag, weight and power really correct for the Ginetta? According to wikipedia, the G58 has a top speed of 306 kilometers per hour, yet it mostly tops out at 260 kph (or less) on Cascais for me, and I don't see it ever reaching 300 no matter the track and setup, to be honest. Well, that is of course assuming the data given on wikipedia is also correct for the particular G58 variant in AMS2.

Oh, and also:
3. Why do some P1s (AJRs) have TCS and ABS and other don't?


Many thanks in advance - I'd love to learn more about these prototypes!

 

good observation

 

Thanks for that. I noticed it as well, though I wasn't sure if it was due to the rules like the ABS/TC thing for the AJRs. Still, I'm not sure the missing DRS alone accounts for the missing performance on track compared to the MetalMoros...

 

The engineer's handbook just says Ohlins F033. The photo of the knobs doesn't seem to match with anything I can see on the Öhlins website.

Edit: Nevermind! The factory setup page specifically says Ohlins TTX 3-way, so it's correct in-game.

 

Perhaps this is a cynical response to the question but maybe its a similar situation to games such as 'World of Warships' or 'World of Tanks' where the games owners Wargaming are Russian, and guess what, the underpowered ships or tanks are always from other countries, the overpowered ships and tanks are always Russian. So now ask 'where does the MetalMoro originate from'?

 

I imagine what we have here is the Ginetta G58 as it would be, fresh from the factory. IRL it's then up to the teams and regulators of the series as to how they can proceed with tuning/modifying. The endurance brasil series has no specific BoP other than weight and displacement, even unrestricted LMP3s can run in the P1 class. Similar scenario with the Sigma where in 2019 it run in the P2 class but this year it will compete in P1 and I expect Reiza is awaiting the season to begin before adding the updated version in-game.

The G58 certainly requires some form of BoP/upgrade in-game but it's possibly a similar situation to the Sigma.

One thing I do hope for, is that cars such as this could have a dual classification, so the G58 would be P1 and LMP2 class, which would afford us the option to use it in it's LMP2 form as well as P1.

 

Yeah it's a tricky one, perhaps if we do see an upgraded version of the G58 then the current one could become LMP2 only. The easiest way from a race set up/car selection would be to allow all cars to be selected individually but I digress, going a little off topic now

 

While I would tend to agree about WoT, I would also argue that Reiza are, first and foremost, racing and car enthusiasts. If a car is thrilling and fun, they are going to replicate it as closely as possible in the sim. At least that's what it has been like until now. I don't see any reason to assume this has changed.

But, on a more interesting note, I found this highly fascinating blog article about the development of the MetalMoro AJR, particularly with regards to the 2019 season of the Endurance Brasil series. While it was mentioned that the AJRs only received DRS because they were noticeably slower on the straights than the Ginetta G57 (the G58's predecessor!) - by about 9 to 15 kilometers per hour - the AJR does have the advantage of not being restricted by a lot of rules when it was designed. So in essence, the AJR makes more use of the more minimal restrictions of the series as opposed to having to adhere to LMP2 (or similar) rules.

Besides the supposed top speed advantage I only found results for the 6 hours of Curitiba, where the AJRs were considerably faster than the fastest G57 lap (around 5.6 seconds between it and the fastest AJR) - though it seems the Ginetta didn't even finish that race, so I'm not sure how representative that lap time of 1:18.834 really is.

In any case, if even the G57 was supposed to be faster down the straights - so fast that ultimately all AJR teams were allowed to use DRS in response - I would assume that the G58 should have similar (if not higher) top speed, so I'm still unsure why it lacks power in the sim as of now.

 

I thought the current AJRs were around the 600hp mark in-game, so already ~150hp more than race trim IRL. Guess that's the reason for the disparity in lap times and top end.
Worth a little experiment with the AJR's restrictor when i get home, see if I can get it down to 450hp for comparison.
Perhaps @Renato Simioni or team could shed some light on the subject if they have some spare time

 

Speaking of restrictors, could someone explain as a small aside why the radiator opening on the AJR is set by default to 5 meters? How would you possibly measure a radiator opening to get a number like that?

 

The G58 is the slowest by looking at the car (paper) data:

AJR Chevy V8 / 950kg / 610HP / Fuel for 10 Laps 26L
AJR Honda / 920kg / 590HP / Fuel for 10 Laps 42L
AJR Judd / 950kg / 605HP / Fuel for 10 Laps 24L
AJR V6 Turbo / 950kg / 600HP / Fuel for 10 Laps 26L
Ginetta G58 / 1020kg / 575HP / Fuel for 10 Laps 28L
(Fuel usage for Cascaise)

I don't know the size of the Fuel Tank for each car or if the size is regulated which would play in to it as well. Fuel consumption would, of course, play a role in a actual race in regards to Pit Stop strategies.

 

The air restrictor does absolutely nothing, well, apart from when it's set to below 1000 which results in blowing the engine in the pits and sending the game into the full right FFB frenzy as per Jimmy Broadbent's stream with the trucks.
Also where are those units coming from? 0 - 5000.10mm, that's one hell of a restrictor plate

 

That makes sense, and even more so when factoring in engine mapping as well. Here is an interesting bit about the Sigma P1:

Can't wait to see it's 2020 version added to the P1 class in AMS2!