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Can we have a little more power for the F-Extreme?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Martakus, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    This is probably kind of nitpicky, but I remember reading that the F-Extreme's weight was increased to match the 2016 season regulations earlier this year. Would you mind upping the power a little bit too? Because basically any source will tell you that current f1 cars have very near or above 1000hp, so I don't see why the F-Extreme should 'only' have 598 kW instead of ~735 (and yes, I am aware that the F-Extreme have some extra downforce to make them more drivable, but I still think they're slower than the current 'real' cars)

    Oh, and: put Formula E cars in the game :p
     
  2. kimbo

    kimbo Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Nothing personal against you martakus, but i believe that formula e class, is the only one that would never play in any sim
     
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  3. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Where are you seeing 1000 HP figures? Most reliable reports suggest 600-700 HP for the ICE units, with the MGU-K limited to 160 HP. That would add up to a maximum output of around 850 HP. The F-Extreme has 802 HP already accounting for drivetrain losses, which are roughly 10%. Drag values are relatively accurate and so are its top speed, suggesting we´re in the right ballpark.

    Lap times are a different matter as the F-Extreme is a 2015 spec car and they´ve gained quite a bit of performance this year via downforce and tires relative to last year. Mind you current Time Trial records show people are still capable of lapping underneath 2016 lap times :)

    With this said the F-Extreme physics are undergoing a revision and we intend to have proper turbo and ERS modelling for it eventually, but ultimately the power output shouldnt diverge too much from the current.
     
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  4. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    @Renato Simioni: 'The 1000 horses barrier is a magical target in F1 and, according to many team sources, the current power units are already delivering more than 900 with some comfort.' - February 2016
    Source: F1 engines set to hit 1000 bhp | Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix
    (Is there any reason as to why you want to keep it on 2015 spec instead of 'updating' it to 2016?)
    @kimbo: Well, there are a lot of cars I've never touched in AMS, too. It comes down to personal preference. And if you're going to have a focus on open wheel racing from different eras, you might as well have one from the future :D Plus Formula E is much, much more strategic than f1 in my opinion because how much downforce you use will not only affect your top speed, but also your energy consumption. And with every single corner you must choose whether to hit the brakes hard to save time or brake more slowly to regenerate as much energy as possible...
     
  5. kimbo

    kimbo Member AMS2 Club Member

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    you are right martakus,but the engine sound is so important to me , in real life and also in sims,
     
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  6. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    While that would suggest my own estimate was a bit conservative, I´d say a speculative "more than 900 HP with some comfort" from a Mercedes engine man blowing his own trumpet is also not quite "any source tell current F1 cars have near and above 1000 HP" as you hinted ;) That would in any case be peak power, firing in all cylinders and batteries and maximum fuel flow, which is not even available for a whole lap let alone race. The sim car has a constant blend of 800 HP at the wheel at all times, which would measure close to 900 HP in a dyno and IMO still in the right ballpark for the average engine in average conditions, which is what the F-Extreme is currently going for - if anything a bit overpowered for the average condition. More important than an eventual increment of maximum output would be to simulate these other systems which add quite a few more variables to the system than we currently have.

    As for why 2015 and not 2016, this kinda illustrates why - 2016 is a moving target still, by season´s end information tends to be a bit more stable and reliable :)
     
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  7. xnorb

    xnorb Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    What you want is something like an F1 car from 1986.
    The good old times of F1 when you had qualifying tires, qualifying engines and what not.
    When the main theme was "Okay, engine just needs to survive 2-3 damn fast laps, so we will tune it to as much power output as possible" which resulted in crazy 1300+ HPs :)

    1986 Formula One season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  8. Martakus

    Martakus Member AMS2 Club Member

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    No, what I want is something like an Formula E car from 2025 when they'll have huge power output and still be drivable (the 1986 ones were crazily hard to control) AND be able to last a whole season on a single engine because sustainability is important :p (But that's a bit off topic)
     
  9. yusupov

    yusupov Member AMS2 Club Member

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    i thought this as well till i read about what renato talks about above; that the figures given in AMS are measured from the wheels. so probably tack on another 10% to compare to pretty much any publicly quoted figures (i think thats prob conservative btw, but it seems to be highly variable & i'm not sure if F1 cars utilize that power more efficiently), so just under 900bhp for the formula extreme, probably very close to what the top engines were putting out at their peak for most of the year (in AC, ferraris SF-15T is claimed at 880bhp; it'd be interesting to ask aris the origin of that figure)

    it is pretty cool though, how what seemed like an almost preposterous amount of virtual grunt only a couple years ago is now lagging when compared to real-world developments, at least as far as qualifying power goes. i suppose at the time my main issue was that it was constantly running at full boost due to the turbo & MGU not being simulated (simply having more power available to a car isn't something i think i'll ever complain about). now the difference is less drastic, although i still have high hopes for the ecu mapping on its drivability.
     
  10. Qazdar Karim

    Qazdar Karim Member

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    Mercedes AMG themselves said that the 2016 power unit can produce more power than the 2005 Mercedes engine. (around 970 BHP if you ask me for an estimation).

    Mercedes producing over 900bhp with more to come.

    But, i'm not saying that you should go for that especially if you 're planning to keep the 2015 specs as reference, around 880 BHP is a good reference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  11. Booger Mac

    Booger Mac New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Even though I understand your reasoning (sound), I don't agree with it. Formula E provides a great way to test drivers abilities to maintain/efficiently utilize battery life much more than fuel.
     
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  12. yusupov

    yusupov Member AMS2 Club Member

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    a little off-topic here, but this is the last remaining car to get new throttle mapping, correct?
     

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