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Camaro SS is broken

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Freeway, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I agree, pre-load doesn't seem to be working fully, that is why I was mentioning clutches. From messing up with them I feel like something is odd with their contribution, as if there was a significant amount of "fixed" friction not scaling with the number of clutches. Again it could very well be a numerical issue that will maybe take some time to fix cause it would have to be somehow fine tuned by car I would imagine.
     
  2. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Like mentioned, after all Reiza will have better possibilities to identify the "why", than we, making assumptions in a complaining thread :D
     
  3. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yep I am sure that on smaller cars and/or cars with less power it is definitely the case that the locking power is way overshot leading to diff being always fully locked. Catherams must be for sure among the most affected.
    Out of curiosity, did you check for instance Ultima GTR race?
     
  4. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    No...i don't think, it's necessary, now that it's known to the devs, that basically each car behaves a bit differently but still shows some "influence" by it.

    btw. the 620R is not low power(to weight/traction)...
     
  5. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Ok thanks. I was just asking cause I spent quite some time on the Ultima and I feel it's one of those working decently but still with some issues.
    Excuse my rude language, I know the power/weight ratio is good on that car but for diff torque purposes what counts is the absolute value of unbalance of torque between int/ext wheels against the locking power of the diff. The unbalance will be higher in value (given a certain corner radius) for wider, heavier cars under coasting (where I think the problem is the most evident) and obviously (under power only) for higher torque (at the wheels) cars. In that respect Caterham is probably not so wide, very light and not having a huge torque compared to bigger GT/prototypes and some more recent F1s... The more you move backward with F1s and the smaller/lighter the car the more I expect the problem to be visible.
    Anyway, let us give Reiza the time to find the where the trick is.
     
  6. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Basically this. The whole discussion about what car is how behaving and making assumption, which type is affected the most, is pretty pointless right now and one of the reasons, why i personally wait with starting AMS2 again until this issue has been fixed and so mentioned in the changelogs. 1.0.2.7 was a breakthrough IMO and the fixing of this issue could even transform a lot of the driving in AMS2 to even fully overcome its predecessor which would lead to the last main puzzle piece, that holds it back for me still a bit.
     
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  7. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I agree, but still I think there are quite some cars that are already enjoyable, no need to wait that much :)
     
  8. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It's all enjoyable, even the somewhat broken feeling Camaro.
    After all, when it comes to the most believeable behaviour, i still prefer AMS1, though. When i lose it in AMS1, i always know, that it's/why it's my fault. In AMS2, sometimes just "BS" happens and i can't trust the sim (yet).
    Exceptions are surprisingly cars with a spool... :D
     
  9. Nolive721

    Nolive721 Active Member

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    Its just that I feel, personal opinion here please dont flame, that there is a lot of open wheelers, lmp and stuff in the game so it would be nice to get a street car that works to bring some balance
     
  10. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    There should be a package of street sports cars in the future if I recall well :)
     
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  11. Freeway

    Freeway Member

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    No point doing a package of street cars if they cannot make the Camaro SS stop hard in a straight line or accelerate hard in a straight line. Why hasn't this been fixed yet?
     
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  12. Spitfire1

    Spitfire1 New Member

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    My guess is and i am trying not to be negative here and disheartening, is that the engine is totally different from AMS1(ISI) and simply can't cope with what you are asking of it and if it did then it is too much work to convert the simulated camaro ss behaviour that was so splendidly done in AMS1 over to AMS2 so they can't be bothered to do so. Your litmus test and the fact that you own and drive this car in real life has shown that the car in game is poorly implemented and if AMS2 devs have not been able to fix it by now i am uncertain they ever will. I like you am holding out but when i heard this game was using the Madness engine i was very nervous about it's future because i have driven alot in project cars 2 and it doesn't at all feel satisfactory when you compare it to the real world.
     
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  13. Nolive721

    Nolive721 Active Member

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    Why the bashing again about PC2 engine.
    Some cars, quite a few actually, are very well executed and the physics are there. With the right FFB custom file tweaking and sorry if that hurts some people feeling but to me it comes to my top3 sim experience.

    The camaro being broken today doesnt mean its a no hope story and certainly not because of the madness engine.
    I want to believe Reiza devs will sort this car out
     
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  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Agreed, but it's not that far off now if you have your FFB set properly.
     
  15. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    In my experience, any SIM bashing come from people that have not yet been able to adjust their FFB for their particular wheel. Either by laziness or because they think they have to justify their dislike for a particular title or miss placed loyalty for an other sim. It is foolish, as all sim you own, installed on your hard drive, is your sim, choosing not to use it, is your loss.
    The fact is, PCars2 and AMS2 with the right FFB file can have excellent FFB and demonstrate great physic in some content. The SMS engine with the right content physic and proper FFB files can achieve outstanding results, equal to any other good title. Mad Studio was in it more for the money and never had the patience to extract the goodness out of thier title(s), Reiza is a different studio and probably will finally show all how great the SMS engine can be. Those with enough interest and no axe to grind will enjoy the fruits of Reiza love labour.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  16. Freeway

    Freeway Member

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    I think you miss the point Cote. Taking off in a straight line and braking hard in a straight are completely independent of force feedback. These are fundamental requirements upon which the force feedback needs to be layered. Regardless of how good the force feedback may or may not be, in the absence of accurate car behavior, it is like frosting on a burnt cake.
     
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  17. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    If you are using FFB, nothing is independent from how your wheel is set up in relation to force feedback. Some physic traits will be exacerbate or totally hidden.
    I don't know what you feel when you are driving your sim and how it meets what you expect to feel, I never will, but until I have a chance to seat in your rig, or you in mine, we can exchange all day for nothing, as what we are feeling and expecting is probably very different. And yes how our respective FFB are set is a big part of it. It is up to us to have it in a way we like or in a way that will demonstrate our bias.
    I have no axe to grind about how the Camaro is in AMS2, on my system, it needs to be driven carefully with acceleration and braking when pushed, but it is totally manageable. I had some fun time with it, but I prefer driving the F3 in AMS2,
    .
     
  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    He means the overly noticeable present tendency to wheelspin and influence to straight line performance at acceleration and braking by this car, compared to his experience with his real life counterpart.

    This has nothing to do with FFB.
     
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  19. Jens E.

    Jens E. Member

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    This car feels like its 2 meters high and has super soft damping/springs.
    far away from a sports car (low, stiff springs etc).
    only did 3 rounds or so on Silverstone and this was horrible...
     
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  20. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    First, Camaro SS is still very much WIP. That is obvious from 30 seconds of observation in the set-up screen and driving it (you can shift almost like a sequential). I expect it will transform a lot when the overall issues with differential programming are resolved.

    However, what you describe is exactly how it should feel in a simulation relative to real race cars. I recall the first time I (with a group) spent an entire day in F2000 training cars at a racing school. When I got back to the parking lot at the end of the day and hopped into my 300+ hp and lowered road car, my exact words were "this feels like I am driving a bus!!" Then, at the first braking point, I thought that the brake cable had snapped--and this is a car that the average person would have described as having overly touchy brakes. What a disappointment to realize that your very expensive, European sports sedan couldn't hold a candle to a basic race car (F2000 is basically a Formula Ford with wings...that I doubt really do very much).

    A very annoying competitor (he was careless, but the fastest among us) as it turned out came to the track each day in a different exotic car--Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Despite being barely more than a teenager, Daddy bought/gave him a business of exotic car rentals, so he could pick and choose whatever he wanted to drive from the ultimate road cars in the world...on a daily basis. He literally fell off the small curving road/driveway on the way out from that day's sessions. He was so embarrassed, but his retort was that he couldn't believe how poorly this six-figure expensive car handled because it couldn't manage to do that corner at that speed. Of course he was going too fast, but it was his temporary inability to adjust back to a relatively tall tippy vehicle that caused him to go off on to the lawn, the same as mine made me disbelieve my own car was that bad (I couldn't afford to wreck it, so was driving more conservatively until I got my bearings).

    It is important in a sim that the relative weight and tipiness of the cars is correctly transmitted--so you don't try driving a gigantic lead weight like the Camaro the way you would a F-Trainer.
     
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