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AMS Unplayable. Constant crashes. Related to rFactor Motec Plugin?

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Spin, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Maybe once out of every 3 or 4 times I click drive to go on track, I get a CTD, Problem Event Name: APPCRASH, Fault Module Name: AMS.exe, etc. etc.

    I've probably had more than 10, maybe 15 (not exaggerating) crash-to-desktops just today alone playing AMS. I didn't seem to have the issue when I removed the motec plugin. Also, when I drive, I don't hear it say "motec activated" or whatever when I go out unless I'm in a test session (1 car). When I go out for practice session in a 22 car session, I don't hear the message. I read in a racedepartment thread that AMS will display a warning on screen if running low on memory but I've never seen this message, ever.

    I tried the patched DataAcquisitionPlugin for Motec v1.0.3 Motec and the original plugin for up to and including Motec v1.0.1. The issue happened in both cases. The crash almost always happens when I click the drive button to go out on track, about 90% of the time. About 10% of the time it crashes when I click on exit back to pits from the escape menu while out on track. AMS will CTD on average around once every 3 or 4 times I click on the drive button. The last time it happened, it happened the very first time I clicked drive. I wonder if it's got to do with memory? I accelerated my 22 car session to around 30 mins into the session the very last time and the instant I hit drive to go do my first laps, bam, CTD. Again, though, there's no warning about low memory like the DataAcquisitionPlugin thread in racedepartment said AMS would give if memory was running low.

    Can anyone else with the DataAcquisitionPlugin/Motec try the following race session to see if it's just me?:
    - race weekend
    - circuit = Salvador
    - vehicle = F301
    - AI = 11x F301, 10x F309
    - time accel = 3x
    - track progress = off
    - track condition = heavy
    - sessions = all 4 practice session + quali + warmup + 1 race
    - race based on distance @ 30 km

    Go in and out a bunch of times. Accelerate time for around 30 virtual minutes then click drive, then escape back to pits, and repeat a few times maybe while watching some cars or on TV cam sometimes before hitting drive (just to mix things up).

    I am going to remove and disable the DataAcquisitionPlugin plugin and do a longer session just to make sure the problem really is connected to the DataAcquisitionPlugin.
     
  2. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    UPDATE: Motec / Data Acquisition is not the problem.

    I removed Motec and the data acquisition stuff but I'm still getting the CTDs. I just tried yet again another race weekend (same setup as above). I accelerated time for around 40 virtual mins. Then I went out and did less than half a lap. Then I escaped back to the pits. Then I clicked on drive to go back out and the exact same CTD with the exact same error once again. :confused:

    I'm literally unable to play AMS at the moment. I have no idea what's going on. This is a new install of Windows and everything else too. This is so strange.
     
  3. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Still getting the crashes. I have tested rFactor 1 and do not get the crashes. I also don't get any crashes in other games (Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4).

    I've tried some more things:
    - verified file integrity
    - set nvidia graphics settings all back to default/application controlled
    - created a new AMS user profile
    - did not edit any text files (plr, controller.ini, realfeel.ini)

    Still getting the crashes the 2nd or 3rd time I click exit to pits (to go back to garage) or drive (to go on track).

    Am I the only one with these problems?

    The next step I'm going to do is reinstall Nvidia drivers. I will go from the current v441.66 drivers to the newest, v441.87.
     
  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    AMS obviously works perfectly in most situations. If you are having those types of major crashes, you should use the trace file option to see if it reveals anything. If there is nothing happening in any other game or sim, and you have done the "overlay" reinstall, then you probably have to do the total wipe (of all program and user folders) and reinstall. Instructions for the trace and the "clean" install are on here somewhere--I am sure you will find them.

    It will probably be some obscure issue related to controller software or sound or graphics. Those are about the only three things that will crash just AMS if there is no evidence of a systemic problem in the rest of your system. But you'll need to do the clean sweep install anyway to be sure or to further diagnose.

    [EDIT] That reminds me...set your in-game controller to keyboard only and detach all controllers from your PC as a test. You won't have any fun driving, but you'll be able to stay out long enough to eliminate controllers as the cause.
     
  5. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Thanks for advice, Marc.

    After reinstalling and updating Nvidia graphics drivers from v441.66 to v441.87, I'm happy to report I finally had a session with no crash. I exited back to the pits and back on track a ton of times. That's so strange. I'm pretty sure I've never had a graphics driver issue like that before. I have no idea if it was a corrupted install or something specific with that driver version and I'm not about to experiment and find out, lol.

    The issue seems to be resolved at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  6. kodnin

    kodnin Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I have a similar issue with the newest Nvidia graphics drivers.
     
  7. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Wow...I wonder what is up? I am 100% stable using 441.66 here.

    The normal pattern is that NVIDIA's drivers work best for their latest hardware (that they keep trying to squeeze an extra 1% of FPS out of to satisfy the extremists). If you have even a one generation old unit, they can miss issues.

    Or, it's an interaction between the video card and something else that some of us have and others do not.

    But I agree with @Spin -- if you get a stable version on your system, leave it alone!!! The updates are very rarely worth the bother and usually compromise stability for speed.
     
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  8. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    No way? Use DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) im Windows safe mode to fully remove your previous drivers, boot back to normal Windows mode and reinstall the driver (and restart PC when done even if the driver install doesnt tell you to just to be 100% safe).

    Give that a shot. I'm going to go on in 30 mins or so to do more tests, hopefully I'm back to normal and nice & stable now as last night indicated.
     
  9. kodnin

    kodnin Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Thanks for the feedback @Spin and @Marc Collins. What worked for me was uninstalling Nvidia GeForce Experience and all the drivers from the Windows Programs menu and then running a Windows Update. That found and installed the now missing Nvidia GeForce driver, which looks older than the one the GeForce Experience installed for me after the latest update.
     
  10. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    The W10 NVIDIA driver only gets updated when there is a 100% stable version. If you want to be safe, just let Windows do it and skip the manual updates in between.
     
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  11. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Any driver can have issues. No such thing as a 100% stable driver.

    Personally, I use DDU (best, most thorough GPU driver uninstaller around) to uninstall, then install the driver selecting the non-geforce experience version. Then, I make sure to always select "custom" install, un-check everything I don't need (eg. geforce experience, hd audio driver, etc.), then check "clean install" underneath. You can't beat that method for a clean install short of extracting the driver's contents to a folder and manually doing things yourself (not recommended unless you know what you're doing).

    You can always use Windows update to figure out the version of the driver it wants and then just go download the driver yourself and perform the uninstall/install yourself in a much more thorough and cleaner way.
     
  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Or, never manually install NVIDIA drivers and let Microsoft and millions of users confirm which versions are stable at the potential expense of +/- 0.5% FPS performance difference.
     
  13. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    I'll explain how this works because Microsoft is still confirming and verifying the drivers regardless if you download from Windows Update or the Nvidia website. Unless you select Beta drivers or something like that, the drivers you'd be downloading from the Nvidia website would be WHQL (Windows Hardware Quality Labs) certified; this is made clearly visible in the list of driver download on the Nvidia site. Microsoft, for Win 10, uses the exact same WHQL certified drivers.

    There's no difference in determining which versions are stable if you download from Windows 10 or Nvidia's site. As long as you're downloading a WHQL certified driver, then it's been signed and given the go-ahead by Microsoft prior to it's release. Then, once in the public, users will report/complain about issues in popular PC hardware & gaming forums, Nvidia's official forums, and probably some Microsoft forums too. Therefore it makes no difference whether it's from Win 10 or not from a stability & testing point of view.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think the Win10 install presents the user the ability to custom install the driver with only the essentials you need instead of a potentially bloated install with unnecessary programs, files, background tasks, etc. I'm pretty sure you need to download the driver yourself for this.

    It's not a +/- 0.5% FPS difference. There are often drivers which bring considerable gains to games like 5%, 10%, 15% (more so for newer games and newer hardware). Also, updating drivers isn't just for higher framerates. There are often times where some games or hardware have issues with a specific driver. There are times when new drivers bring new features (eg. sharpening options, new fps limiter, latency modes), there are sometimes security fixes, SLI fixes/improvements, Nvidia control panel bugs, etc. Lots of reasons to update drivers.
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Except the ones offered through W10 Update are the least likely to cause problems. Of the many WHQL-certified iterations, Microsoft waits until it is confirmed that there are minimal issues before rolling out the favoured one of those to the general population.

    AMD has/had (not sure if they are still doing this because I haven't had one for a while) an interesting approach to driver updates: one per year that is conservative/stable. Every other monthly update was use at your own risk. Might be better; might be worse.

    The problem with straying from the default driver is that for every title that gets a boost or gain, there will likely be one that loses or is more likely to crash. The least chance of problems is the default driver (Windows Update version or the AMD-advertised version).

    All that being said, I update my NVIDIA driver sometimes. But for anyone who wants to avoid headaches, questions, use of driver uninstall/cleaners, reinstalling multiple times, just stick the known good driver.
     
  15. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Ohhh so, if I'm understanding correctly, there's a delay between Nvidia releasing a WHQL driver to the public and Microsoft releasing it (if they even release it at all) via Windows update in order to allow the public who downloaded it themselves to give the driver a sort of mass-public test. Now I see what you're getting at. That then makes total sense to just wait on those specific driver versions that only Windows release. Gotcha ;)

    If the NV driver from W10 update is working without issues then, you're right, it's better for the majority to stick with that since it's so convenient & easy. Although it's lowest risk and "cleaner" to do a method like I described (you'll find most "power users" and "enthusiasts" doing it that way).

    Advising the majority to stick only with the exact driver versions W10 update recommends - regardless if installing from W10 update or downloading from Nvidia's site - is a good idea.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, Windows Update only gets one or two NVIDIA or AMD updates per year. I am pretty sure there are back-channel discussions about ensuring the Windows version is the most stable, but even if there is not, some process skips the majority of the WHQL-certified updates from NVIDIA.
     
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