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Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Automobilista 2 features a rather simple but highly accurate FFB system, very similar to the RealFeel system used in its predecessor AMS1 - in both sims all FFB output to the player are comprised of forces acting on the steering arms, translated over to the steering rack, which are dynamically affected by the ever-changing conditions while driving. Try bending front suspension you'll clearly see steering not centering anymore, as the suspension geometry changed.

    Similarly, the steering column torque is affected by car setup - directly by Caster angle (as it changes lateral force leverage on steering ) and steering lock, as lower lock angles lead to a higher steering ratio, which in turn leads to all forces being dilluted into a higher steering range (the opposite is true when increasing the steering lock). FFB will also be indirectly affected by aero, tyre compound and presure settings - basically anything that affects the peak forces being produced on the tyres will make the FFB ligther or stiffer. This why karts for example have very stiff steering even though these are very light vehicles, the Caster angle is very high and all forces are concentrated on a very narrow steering range.

    It´s important to observe the FFB system, like everything else in AMS2 is still under active development - things may still change and evolve, and as they do we will amend this article to reflect it.

    Below is an overview of the Force Feedback settings and our recommendations on how to tune them:


    PROFILE: Currently there is only one, Default profile - you should only change to "Custom" if you have modified ffb_custom_settings.txt file in MyDocs/Automobilista 2 folder - if you haven´t changed that file, "Custom" will be no different from "Default" profile.


    GAIN: Defines maximum force output. The default 100% setting has some clipping built-in, specially on high downforce vehicles as in these the steering column torque can easily exceed 30Nm when car is under heavy load in a fast corners, while front tires are fully gripping and self-aligning torque is very high

    For Direct Drive wheels, it is recommended to set gain around 40-50%. This has thus far been tested mostly on a Fanatec DD1 base. Stronger wheels may use even lower Gain values.


    LOW FORCE BOOST: Similarly to AMS1, LFB serves as an "amplifier" of FFB when tyres are relatively unloaded, useful specially for wheels with weaker motors like in Logitech G2X wheels, to enhance these lower range forces without necessarily adding clipping to the top range.

    If you feel the FFB is lacking or "limp" when travelling at slower speeds or during straights, you may want to experiment with some level of LFB - may be set as high as 80% in Logitech G2X or other similar wheels, while stronger Fanatec / Thrustmaster wheels should be set somewhere in the range of 30-60%.

    Even if you have a Direct Drive wheel and are unsatisfied with the force output while tyres are unloaded, you may use Low Force Boost @ 10-30% without concern for clipping high forces as LFB only applies at the lower end of the force range and will never saturate / introduce clipping on it's own.


    FX: Adds a little vibration from the engine as it goes through the RPM range (very faint, and linked to the engine´s actual angular velocity); it also adds a "Tyre Scrub" effect, which is a function of tyre vibration that would naturally transfer as vibration onto wheel rim, driven by actual physics signal.


    MENU SPRING controls wheel centering spring only while navigating the UI. For DD wheels it should be set to 0 or some other very low value.

    EDIT1:
    Controller Damping in the UI relates to gamepad & other digital controllers only - it´s NOT a FFB setting.

    Currently, we do not control damping and friction from in game. Both are important on DD wheels. We will later model these from physics directly.

    Recommended settings for DD1 Fanatec:
    Damper: 25
    Friction: 5
    Inertia: 10
    Interpolation: 4 (this is largely down to personal preference. On SimuCube this could be "Reconstruciton filter", some others "smoothing")

    Recommended settings for Logitech G2X wheels:
    Profiler settings AMS.JPG

    These are from AMS1 but remain relevant for AMS2, except damper & spring are currently not applied to AMS2.

    More to come as we get direct experience with a larger range of wheels - in the meantime you can find several user suggestions in replies to this topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  2. toniware

    toniware Member

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    i have played around with these settings aspecially the fx and lfb, i am on a g27, but i cant really feel anything in the wheel that would tell me whats going on, unless the car is about to oversteer.
    the understeer is absolutely not noticable, atm it just feels like the faster i go, the harder it gets to turn. if i try to force a understeer by throwing my wheel in one direction, the force pretty much stays constant

    could we maybe get an explaination of how to change stuff in the custom ffb file? i looked at it but i cant really tell what i should change, the syntax isnt quite clear
     
  3. toniware

    toniware Member

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    double checked, i have those exact settings
    edit: i have tried r3e and ac and those feel "as expected", but in ams2 i just get a very numb feeling
     
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  4. C_Stephens

    C_Stephens New Member Reiza Backer

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    Dampening set to zero in game as well?
     
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  5. toniware

    toniware Member

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    i dont even have this specific game settings, its greyed out for me, so i assume its a global setting
    edit: i mean i do feel bumps or when i hit the curb, its just that the understeering is not present at all, or any grip change at all when steering in (other than the fact that the resistance in the wheelforce goes up)

    sometimes reminds me a bit of my first steering wheel, which had a rubber string force me to center. now its just a bit more vibration on the straight or when hitting curbs.
    but as i said if i oversteer, the wheel tries to selfalign in whatever direction
     
  6. C_Stephens

    C_Stephens New Member Reiza Backer

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    In the game>controls>configuration menu its greyed out? Does it have a value?
     
  7. toniware

    toniware Member

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    [​IMG]

    first time i see this option tbh, so this and vibration to 0 ?
    these are the default values that come with the g27 preset expect for the deadzone i turned that down a bit
    why not move this to the ffb section if its related
     
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  8. C_Stephens

    C_Stephens New Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm not sure if vibration does anything, but I set damping to zero then slowly added till I was happy. Think I'm at 10. It seemed to help with the dead zone at center.
     
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  9. toniware

    toniware Member

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    i will give it a try, but my issue isnt the deadzone.

    its the fact that it feels like the force while steering is a constant like the calculation was as simple as

    force = -steerdirection * speed * vehiclevalue;
    regardless of anything related to the front tires
     
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  10. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    I'm on
    Gain 68
    LFB 32
    FX 30
    ...and it feels amazing now with the CSL. (FEI100 and everything else cranked up, dpr and spr inclusive).
    Some cars feel better than AMS1 due to more steering force overall, but no detail loss (Caterham Superlight, for example).

    It's harder to dial it in to feel great, than in AMS1, but it is worth it.

    Also i like, how the system uses the rumble motors on the CSP V3 subtle in lock-up and slip situations.
     
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  11. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    Is dampening at zero recommended? What will feel different between zero and 100?
     
  12. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    The less inertia your wheel has, the more damper you should use.
    I use fully cranked up dPR on my CSL and it feels fine.
    A G27 maybe benefits from less damper, for example, because it has much own "weight" and inertia in steering movement.^^

    I'm not sure, the game uses the damper channel at all, though.
     
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  13. toniware

    toniware Member

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    just tried again with 0 dampening and 0 vibration ingame, and that didnt change anything for me.
    still no difference in torque from the wheel when the wheel slip or so.

    i test that by driving slowly and then full smacking the brake, which should atleast change something in my wheel? both tires lock up

    on grass is quite a noticable change tho

    steering side to side, till i understeer also doesnt change any of the feeling i get
     
  14. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    Does controller vibration even apply to a wheel or is it just for controller/game pad?
     
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  15. C_Stephens

    C_Stephens New Member Reiza Backer

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    It's easy to try yourself, i don't know if its recommended. I found my wheel kind of lifeless to detail and slow reacting to me. With it at zero I find i notice details and the wheel is quicker responding. With the Ultima race and a track with elevation i can feel the wheel get lighter at crest and load at bottom of dips that i couldn't feel before. Just my opinion but it greatly improved things for me.
    edit: I have a G920 so i am unable to set damping to zero in a profile.
     
  16. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Active Member Reiza Backer

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    As I understand it, the latter.
     
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  17. cristian51

    cristian51 Member

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    is this all default settings? cause i touched some of these values and dont remember all default values now :) thx
     
  18. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    Yes it is easy to try for ourself, but then why do we even need a thread?
    The purpose of this thread is to have support and not waste time trying to adjust settings that might not even do anything.
    Are you saying adjusting controller vibration has an effect on how your wheel reacts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  19. toniware

    toniware Member

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    deadzone was at 7, turned em down to 4, but it doesnt really matter tbh
     
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  20. CreamyCornCob

    CreamyCornCob Member

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    People. The word is damping, simply to reduce (damp) energy, whether its acoustical,physical or what not.
    Not Dampening, you're not making something moist. :D
    (pet peeve from my enclosure business days heh)
     
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