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General AI Performance Discrepancy Reports (No Discussion)

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Sep 14, 2023.

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  1. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Please use this thread to report observed discrepancies in AI performance.

    The thread is primarily for reporting overall lap time discrepancies of 1s or more relative to your own times. but may also be used for other pertinent discrepancies as listed below.

    In order to report, first you need to assess your own baseline performance- to do that run either Stock Car Pro Series 2023 or F-Ultimate Gen2 at Barcelona and find the AI Strength setting that has them matching your best times - for example if you get matching lap times with either or both at 105%, that is your AI Strength standard. Any car / track combo in which the top AI driver is going 1s faster or slower than your own lap times using that same setting you may report the discrepancy here.

    To report on lap time issues, please observe the following requirements:
    1. Run class with default AI drivers (as mod drivers can change their performance)
    2. Set your and AI times in a qualifying session
    3. Inform car/track combo, AI Strength & Aggression and track status used in the session
    4. Include a screenshot of the session showing both yours and AI overall and sector times, as well as weather conditions (see example below)
    5. Run the full session or at least long enough for AI to get 5 laps in
    6. Make sure your lap times were set running the same car model (if not a single make class) and tires as the top AI driver (wet or dry)
    7. Ensure that your own lap time was as close to your optimal as you could manage
    8. If you used a substantially different setup vs default to set your time, please attatch the setup
    9. Include as much detail as you find pertinent (ex. where time seemed to be gained or lost vs AI)

    AI DISCREPANCY REPORT:
    F-Classic Gen4 @ Barcelona, 113% Strentgh, 75% Aggression, Medium Rubber. AI is faster through the last two corners
    20230913163133_1.jpg

    In this example AI didn´t run 5 laps and the gap to the top isn´t over 1s making the report invalid, but you get the idea :p

    If the discrepancy is noted in a session other than qualifying, please include that distinction in your report.

    Issues users may also report on this topic:
    • Inconsistencies in AI performance vs Player in a given track, in dry or wet, with slicks or wet tires (please specify each variable for both Player & AI)
    • Inconsistencies in AI performance vs Player in one type of session vs another (practice vs quali or quali vs race for ex)
    • Inconsistencies in AI straightline speed vs Player (AI faster or slower than player with the same car on long straights)
    • Inconsistencies in AI start performance (AI faster or slower off the line vs player in dry or wet track - please specify)
    • Inconsistencies in AI performance vs Player specific to braking, midcorner and corner exit stages
    • Inconsistencies in impact of fuel load in AI performance
    • Inconsistencies in AI tire wear & resulting pitstop decision issues

    IMPORTANT: While we may ask more details on given reports and on occasion answer them with pertinent info, members should ONLY post on this thread for reports or to answer said details; Likewise AI discrepancy reports should NOT be posted anywhere else if you want them to be registered.Posts not conforming to this requirement will be deleted.

    I´ll try keep track of reports as well as I´m able, and add ratings to the posts as I verify each of them, to the following legend:
    • Agree: we´re aware and can reproduce the issue (but not necessarily fix it yet)
    • Disagree: we can´t reproduce the issue or it does not amount to an actual bug
    • Useful: we´re aware and have rectified the issue
    • No Rating: we haven´t verified this report yet
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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    • Informative Informative x 4
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  2. Dicra

    Dicra Local Gamepad Ambassador AMS2 Club Member

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    @Renato Simioni One quick question, should we determine that baseline pace in quali or race trim or does it not matter? I guess qualifying, as that is what it says to test in the post, but there are sometimes differences on heavy fuel that aren't there on low fuel. Also, any specific track conditions we should adhere to?

    (Feel free to delete this, but I think it's important for this thread to know for sure)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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  3. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Primary focus should be on qualifying for ultimate pace both dry and wet, but if a given combo checks out in qualifying and the discrepancy is noted only once tire wear, fuel load variation or changing weather kicks in, you may note that on your report.

    You can report on any car / track combo, but it´s certainly helpful to take whatever class you noted a discrepancy with to Barcelona for benchmarking to distinguish whether the discrepancy is car or track related (or a bit of a both).
     
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  4. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    What about possible discrepancies between player and fatest AI sector times (one way or the other) and they somewhat "cancel out" each other for an entire lap, resulting in total discrepancy being < 1s for the lap ?
    During races this would be mostly observed as best AI taking some curbs slower than player and accelerating out of them faster. Or if using qualifying, the sector times in the results would show these discrepancies as well (for example: S1: -1s, S2: 1s, S3: identical).
     
  5. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Strong sector times discrepancies yet with resulting working/matching laptime at the end are also valid for a report.
     
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  6. kkdrummer

    kkdrummer Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Cool, thanks for doing this. Should we use Barcelona with or without chicane?
     
  7. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Without chicane.
     
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  8. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  9. Dicra

    Dicra Local Gamepad Ambassador AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 114/High Aggression
    Car Used: F-V10G1/Identical opponents
    Track: Spa-Francorchamps 1993
    Session: Qualifying

    Can confirm the report made about this particular combination elsewhere. I'm doing low 49's here, the AI do mid 51's in qualifying (medium grip, I was not cutting Bus Stop despite the fact you very much can). The AI were consistently off my pace; 6 tenths in S1, 9 tenths in S2 and 3.
     
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  10. madchief

    madchief Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Seeing that Stock Car Pro Series 2023 is used as the baseline I set a time at Barcelona and set the difficulty accordingly. The AI more or less matched the time differences compared to me on 3 other tracks I've tried. (knowing that Barcelona is one of my worst tracks, I turned difficulty up a few clicks)

    So the AI seems to be very well tuned for the Stock Car Pro Series 2023 class all around! It was really fun racing them and they provided a nice challenge :D

    From an initial look it seems that the AI struggles the most with high downforce cars that can be pushed a lot in corners, but I'll post some proper reports when I have some time.
     
  11. Dicra

    Dicra Local Gamepad Ambassador AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 114/High Aggression
    Car Used: F-RetroG1 McLaren
    Track: Interlagos 1976
    Session: Qualifying and Race

    AI is much slower out of T2 (around 5-6 tenths time loss) and out of T4 (you can drift that corner, which is faster, AI don't do that and lose 6-7 tenths on the exit of it).

    Baseline Strength: 114/High Aggression
    Car Used: F-RetroG2 Lotus
    Track: Interlagos 1976
    Session: Qualifying and Race

    AI is much slower out of the last corner. From there on, it's full throttle for the player all towards T3. The AI either don't do that or are slower on the straight, because they lose almost a second there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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  12. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Please don´t forget to include a screnie of the results screen with sector times and weather / track conditions, it´all relevant.
     
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  13. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 108/Max Aggression
    Car Used: F-RetroG2 Brabham BT46
    Track: Brands Hatch GP
    Session: Qualifying
    They are slow pretty much everywhere here, but more so on the first and third sectors, I think the class itself is a little slow as in Barcelona I was 2 seconds faster than the other Brabham.

    Automobilista 2 Beta 9_16_2023 4_53_54 PM.png

    Automobilista 2 Beta 9_16_2023 5_16_58 PM.png
     
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  14. HansieCronje

    HansieCronje New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 105/Medium Aggression
    Car Used: 2023 Stock Car Corolla
    Track: Barcelona and Interlagos
    Session: Qualifying
    Conditions: Light rain/wet track, real time. Track started soaked and moved to damp as dry line formed

    AI was off the pace in the wet compared to baseline dry. Their times improved over the session as the dry line formed. Their main weakness was braking too early and they were slow early/mid corner. Corner exit was a bit better and straights were ok.

    Barcelona Wet.png Interlagos Wet.png
     
  15. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Caterham Supersport vs Superlight:
    • BA No.6 track, 42 degrees, dry, default date
    • Superlight AI are 1.5 secs per lap faster than Supersport RELATIVE to player (me) at same settings
      • Slight set-up tweaks to Superlight that has substantially more understeer in default set-up than Supersport (which has none) reduced the gap a bit
     
  16. Dicra

    Dicra Local Gamepad Ambassador AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: Used to be 114 but for this class I used 110/High Aggression
    Car Used: F-Reiza
    Track: Barcelona
    Session: Race
    Setting: Fuel accelerated

    AI goes from bang on my pace to 1.6 seconds quicker per lap while also seemingly suffering no tire wear (which is very high for the player; after 7 flat out push laps the soft tires are done).

    They gain the most in T4 and the third to last corner (both very long right handers, might be a clue).

    20230920152512_1.jpg 20230920153513_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
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  17. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Next build will include adjustments for AI wear rates and degradation in f1-style cars, should at least bridge some of that gap.
     
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  18. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 108/Max Aggression
    Car Used: F-RetroG2 Brabham BT49
    Track: Barcelona
    Session: Qualifying/Race
    Similar to Dicra, I am losing 4 seconds from my pole time to the start of the race, while the AI only loses 2, 66 lap race, started with 180l (70 laps) of fuel. This happens pretty much with every formula class, bar the Retro G1, which are perfect.

    Automobilista 2 Beta 9_20_2023 7_09_52 PM.png Automobilista 2 Beta 9_20_2023 7_08_42 PM.png Automobilista 2 Beta 9_20_2023 6_56_10 PM.png
     
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  19. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Baseline Strength: 108/Max Aggression
    Car Used: F-Classic G1/Lotus 98
    Track: Barcelona
    Session: Qualifying/Race

    Unfortunately I couldn't upload the photo from the race, too big. But this class is gonna be tricky to balance against the player, a lot of variables here. I lost about 8 seconds from my qualy time to the beginning of the race (1.31.7) managed a 1:24.3 in qualy but my ideal was 1:23:4, so I left a lot on the table, very tricky car to drive, but very nice nonetheless.

    The tricky part is that Mr Silva did a super uber lap on qualy with a special 2k bhp car. I know he was pretty good in qualy, but thats too OP. He did a 1:26.5 on the race, while I managed a 1:31.7 on medium tires which are about 1 second more or less slower than the softs, but Mr Marshall did a 1:26.7 so he only lost 3 seconds from qualy to race and only 1.3 seconds from practice to race and practice was run on a green track. Track temperature in the race was 92f, so while it should be faster than the 85f of practice, it's still too much of a difference when compared to the player.

    The player is at a huge disadvantage in this class, if you factor in the tire choice and wear, fuel weight and having to run the lean fuel map because otherwise you will run out of fuel, its simply not possible to race the AI at the same difficulty that you qualify in a full length race in this class. Granted I did not continue the race past lap 10 to see if the AI would pit or lose a lot of pace (will do that tomorrow) but it's still not very immersive having to deal with such disadvantages at the beginning of the race.


    Automobilista 2 Beta 9_21_2023 12_05_33 AM.png Automobilista 2 Beta 9_20_2023 11_50_55 PM.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023
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  20. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    We are looking into a way to mitigate the issue of AI cars not suffering with fuel load as much as player, please feel free to keep reports of series most affected coming.
     
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