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I regret buying this simulator

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by edu2703, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. edu2703

    edu2703 New Member

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    I confess that I didn't follow AMS2 development. The first time I heard about this simulator was watching some beta videos on Youtube and I found it a very promising simulator. When version v1.0 was released, I bought in the same day. I had really enjoyed AMS1 before moving to rFactor 2 as the main simulator.

    After playing for a few hours, I noticed major problems. As I was not very aware of AMS2, I thought that since AMS1 used rFactor 1 engine, AMS2 would use rFactor 2 engine. However, I found out that AMS2 uses the Madness engine, the same one used in Project Cars 2 and that is a very bad thing.

    Madness Engine is far from being mod-friendly. You can see this from the massive lack of car mods and tracks compared to Asseto Corsa, Rfactor 1 and 2 or even AMS1. AMS2 already has a good selection of cars and tracks, but that's not enough for me. I don't want to be stuck with overpriced DLC's if I want new content while in these other simulators, you can get multiple cars or tracks for free.

    Another problem is the lack of realism. It's too much to ask a racing simulator to have a yellow flag indicator to indicate an incident ahead? Absolute chaos on the track but the AMS2 shows absolutely nothing. The curious thing is that in most circuits, the marshalls are animated but they do absolutely nothing besides look around. A complete waste of animation, compared to rFactor 2 where the marshalls wave the yellow flags.

    And lastly, no matter how much I mess with configurations, in most cars, especially the Formula cars, they shake like hell on the track. I can't do 5 laps without having a headache with all that shaking on onboard cameras. Reiza says this problem has already been fixed, but I saw no difference.

    Updates are not encouraging for me. It seems that Reiza is giving a lot of attention to new content and fixing small bugs while others that I consider extremely important to fix are not even in it. There has been very little progress from v1.0 release so far for me.

    I fully respect those who are enjoying this simulator and even those who think it's the most realistic on the market, but for me this simulator is at least 1-2 years from its true release state. I'll be playing it again in a year and see how it's going, but I have zero perspective that AMS2 will get any closer from rFactor 2 regarding physics, realism and mod-friendly.
     
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  2. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Some valid points. Hopefully we will see you back in a couple of years. Keep in mind it's a longterm project. They said 2 years, perhaps more. Fingers crossed!

    The sim can't be modded due an agreement with SMS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  3. BartZ

    BartZ Member

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    Yea, I agree about the flags. Some shortcomings are even more basic like incorrect car stats in menus for example. This is simply not good enough. The game is however evolving with some pretty heavy development. I hope we'll see more features soon and the basics are fixed. The game is too good and has too much potentials to be spoiled with silly errors and missing features available in so many other sims.
    Fingers crossed
     
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  4. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    I have to say that, for me, you shot your own post in the foot by saying you essentially bought the sim without doing any research. In an age where we have masses of information piped into our own homes and at our fingertips, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who can't spare the time to make use of it.

    While some of the things you said are true, they are also things that most of those who bought into the sim were fully aware of. You should have been too. Yes the sim needs a lot of work, but most of us were aware AMS 2 is a long-term project for Reiza, and not a release-and-its-done affair. Again, this was stated numerous times before release.

    Again, making use of the wonder that is the internet, you would know that the people making the content are not the same guys working on the core of the sim and fixing it's bugs. So one does not impact the other. Stated numerous times.

    Then you clearly haven't played the sim very much, because a vast amount of progress has been made in multiple areas since v1.0. Sorry the marshals aren't animated yet, but there are numerous more important things that have been added/improved/tweaked/fixed. Try reviewing some of the old changelogs... see how long they are?

    The lesson here is to research the products you're interested in so that you know what you are buying into. That way you avoid disappointment and can stick to sims that have development cycles that suit your needs.

    (For the record, rF2 is a very poor comparison, given what a mess that sim was for years before it received proper investment.)
     
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  5. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    I have an idea, ask Renato for refund (he was so nice to offer it already in the past) and stick with rF2...once on it I suggest you to give a try to Reiza dlc for rF2 and compare it to ISI cars and early S397 cars and maybe.... maybe....you will be able to see the level of commitment Reiza guys put on it...(and they will since they promised they will update it in the future)
    After all that ask yourself....if Reiza was able to do that with an utterly mess (rF2), without access to all the code, maybe they can do something good with Madness too? If you still think not...maybe you found the answer....simply you don't like it and who cares?
     
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  6. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    @DaVeX He has some valid points. We need counter-messages as well. But yeah, he can try the refund. Koly got one as well months ago.
     
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  7. Gagaryn

    Gagaryn Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Alternatively - he can do as he said he will in his post, stop playing for a while and come back when it is a more mature, feature rich product.

    The OP recognises Reiza's commitment. But not everybody enjoys the ride, some people just want to visit the destination. I think we need to learn to graciously recognise that some people have different opinions and different priorities. And that's ok.
     
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  8. 250swb

    250swb Active Member

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    I suspect the OP's 'shaking' may be down to a graphics setting, and the lack of yellow flags can be worked around by being at the front. As for wanting free content (or content for free based on somebody else's hard work) in other games it's so variable in quality it isn't fun.

    Perspective is a great thing, and if the OP had been on early access and seen how far it's come in only a few months it wouldn't be nearly so hard to imagine where it can be in another two years. And it's come so far not only through Reiza's great work but the efforts of the people playing it and giving feedback. But it is true it's still not a finished product and the gripes of the OP are going to be common from people expecting everything to be served to them on a plate.
     
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  9. azaris

    azaris Active Member

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    Can't really argue with these criticisms and there is definitely room for further improvement. Although, I certainly wouldn't hold rFactor2 as some kind of scion of sim racing.

    rFactor2 is not very mod-friendly either because of the complex tyre model. The best mods are payware so effectively you're just paying for third party DLC. I'd rather get curated new content from Reiza rather than scour PopupDepartment for some ripped mods with physics from who knows where.

    rFactor2 has "detailed flag rules" that in practice don't work, you get stuck in endless safety car periods, penalised for blue flags in oval racing, black flags for non-violations etc. It's pretty hard to implement a system that enforces racing rules without human interaction, but hopefully at least basic yellow flags should be implemented at some point.

    The camera shaking issue is unfortunate as it only bothers some users, but any is too many in my opinion. Hopefully further changes can be made that fix the issue for everyone.
     
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  10. Apex

    Apex Member

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    I felt the same way as the OP at first and got a refund after testing the game for about an hour and a half. A few days later I picked the title up again but didn't expect it to be a finished product.

    I probably wouldn't recommend ASM2 as the first and only game for someone new to the hobby, but there's enough 'good enough' content for me to justify the fairly moddest expense, and I'm excited to see what Reiza can do for us next few years.
     
  11. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Active Member

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    To me AMS2 is a good all round product, but isn't 'the best' in many areas. It's completely fair that what matters to me doesn't need to be the most important things for everyone else and I can't argue with the OP's post, it's respectful and well structured.

    What I will add to the disappointment about mods is that I did do a little research before purchasing and was led to believe that mods would work the same was as for Project Cars 2, which at least allowed for custom grids and custom car additions. The additional restrictions in AMS2, as well as the restrictions on things like AI files that only affect single-player racing, are disappointing to me and I hope there's some scope to look at things that could be opened up in future (for example, I believe skins are planned).

    I don't regret buying the game, but it's not yet where I was hoping it to be - it looks like this will offer one of the best 'historic' content sets of any game in recent memory, so I'm hoping both content and game in this area continue to improve at the impressive rate Reiza have been managing so far.
     
  12. Scoops

    Scoops Member

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    I think it’s an interesting point that while lots on here have been on a journey for varying lengths of time there will be others that have just spent the money without the back storey.

    What should they expect from a V 1.0 race sim on Steam?

    Does that expectation meet the current product on sale?

    If this was your first sim what would you think?

    Where the expectation doesn’t meet or exceed their perception of the reality then there is disappointment and I think that might be the situation the OP describes.
     
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  13. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I seem to remember Another Car Computer game being pretty ropey at v1.0, look how that one turned out. Try to enjoy the ride, if you change your mindset, being part of a title in constant development can be the most satisfying and rewarding experience.
     
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  14. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    I dont see a problem whatsoever that OP does express his disapointment with AMS2 - mainly because he does it in a very constructive and reasonable way.
    Because just like myself he has a lot of admiration that AMS2 is not the only racing game/sim on the market at the moment.
    So if the frustration by all the existing irritating bugs is too high then its pretty easy (and cheap) to go somewhere else.
    For good or just temporarily.:D
    And then maybe come back from time to time to check if Reiza have made other changes in this game than launching further cars and tracks.:)
     
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  15. Bart Hendrikx

    Bart Hendrikx Member

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    Iracing that was verry sad on release, and it came a long way. So yes its not 100% but so am i. And remeber you want to have fun! Nog all cars ar my cup of tea, but others man
     
  16. farcar

    farcar Member

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    I agree with this 100%

    In response to OP, I agree that the SIM still needs a lot of work on fundamentals, but I'm here to enjoy the journey. I would never buy a niche racing sim this early in it's life, expecting different.

    Having said that, I do hope Reiza learned a lesson in PR with AMS2's release.
    Leaving 'Early Access' and the release of Version 1.0 was seemingly just marketing spin, to justify the rise to full price. Understandably, this would have confused and put quite a few people off, realising after purchase they actually had a product that was very much incomplete.

    I understand there would have been commercial pressures, but messaging is important.
     
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  17. BartZ

    BartZ Member

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    I am glad to see some criticism. Especially when it's constructive and well mannered. Majority of posts here express very positive views letting devs know how good a job they are doing and it's well deserved. Without them we'd have one less good SIM. As for "new SIM's" there's only AM2 and ACC (since PC3 is a bust).
    Anyway, devs also need to know what we don't like so they can hopefully prioritise fixes.
     
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  18. DaWorstPlaya

    DaWorstPlaya Active Member

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    While I don't completely agree with the OP, I do think the game feels very much unfinished in many respects. It honestly feels like a PCars2.5 work in progress version.

    Some cars feel very broken, handling physics are inaccurate and FFB is missing in certain cases.
    The menus have incorrect information on cars. eg: Beetle/Fusca being RWD but menu shows FWD
    Peer to peer multiplayer doesn't offer the ability to change race lobby settings.

    Dispite all of this, the game shows great potential. It would please me more if these issues were focused on vs adding new content. A polished product of smaller scope has greater value than an unpolished product that is all over the place.
     
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  19. James Lee GTE

    James Lee GTE Member

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    I bought this sim for £25 on general release date. I’ve all ready had value for money from it and the Silverstone pack have my favourite versions of Silverstone ever and I love throwing pretty much any F1 car around them. The P3 Roco I’m completely addicted to, especially around Oulton Park. If it was left in this state, I’ll be honest I’d feel like I had fun and great value. But this is Reiza, so we all know with time, it’s going to get better and better just like Kunos and ACC.
    I agree that this currently can’t be someone’s first sim, but given in my library I have RF2, AC, R3E and the Dirt Rallies, it’s not like I’m not spoilt for choice for which sim and which car classes I want to drive.
    Patience is the key here and I’ve enjoyed seeing it develop, especially AI, slipstreaming, FFB and loving the alternative car and track combos in the game. There’s only so many versions of the RSR 2017 / 2018 around Nords I can handle haha.
    If driving sims were easy to make, we would still be driving basic games from the 90’s. The fact they are so complex and take an age to make, is what makes them so fantastic once done.
    Relax, watch it grow and sometime in 2021, I believe this could rival my favourite sim ever RF2!
     
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  20. BrunoB

    BrunoB Active Member

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    Hehe I understand what you mean :D - but I cant help making a comment about the famous 90-ish sim GPL.
    This ancient piece of software has still a lot of stubborn :p tifosis who both use this sim on a daily basis and even create more modern versions of this sim legend.
     

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