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Jimmy's latest AMS2 review

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by farcar, Jun 17, 2021.

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  1. farcar

    farcar Well-Known Member

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    While I like Jimmy's videos, I'm normally happy to draw my own conclusions on a sim so I don't tend to read too much into his (or any YouTuber's) opinions either way - but with 700K+ subscribers to his channel, his opinions are no doubt influential and therefore relevant to AMS2.

    I was a little disappointed that this video wasn't a bit more in depth, considering he hasn't played AMS2 for such a long time.:
    • Just a quick single class race that doesn't show a lot of the new features and content.
    • He didn't set up the car to see how that may impact his driving experience.
    • He didn't use the weather features or talk about Live Track

    While he acknowledged some positives, he missed a lot that showcase many of AMS2s main strengths and points of difference to other sims.

    I think sims like AMS2 need a decent amount of time invested, to draw thorough conclusions. A 10 minute race in a single car isn't enough.
     
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  2. Zeraxx

    Zeraxx Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Gonna start this off by saying I love jimmy, dude is a great entertainer in terms of making me laugh, but I completely agree with the OP, I see this as a reoccurring problem with a lot of the YT community around sim racing now a days, its all just pushing content to push content, not very much invested time to actually be of value, just record some gameplay and slap whatever buzz title the sim racing community is pushing for the month on the video.

    Id really enjoy seeing more content creators investing more time to provide unique content and information that is not as subjective and actually provides value to the community. There's some great unique content out their like @steelreserv, they just don't have as much of viewership as the big guys.

    As always, this is just my personal opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  3. John Mendez

    John Mendez New Member

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    I had already put a link of his video in another thread.
    The problem is that he don´t like the feeling of AMS 2 cars.
    He have the same problem I have. Coming from RF2 and Iracing, it´s easy to feel if something is not right. Like I said before, while GTE´s are very good, the prototypes are not.
    Cars like the Ginetta and the DPI´s are GLUED to the ground in real life. GLUED. In AMS 2 they are all bouncy and they drift very easily. It´s not very common too see an LMP car or similar drifting. Even with normal driving, something feels weird.
    In addition to this, the FFB on those cars (even with the custom files) are not good at all.
    People must understand that the purpose of a good FFB is not only to feel de strips and to rumble when the car slips. There are a lot of nuances. With a good FFB you can really feel the tyres of the car. You can feel the chassis flex, and you feel something elastic/rubbery all the time. The thing is that, this is hard to explain and even harder to recreate.

    Back to Jimmy, if he´s not happy with the feeling, he will not try the weather and the other things. That´s secondary. If you don´t like the driving in a racing simulator, it´s almost pointless to test the rest, because the most important is not there. BUT, some cars are good in my eyes. Not the prototypes. He should have tested another cars like the Porsche RSR. For me the GTE´s are already in a good level.

    We need a really good prototype.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  4. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Well thought out post. J Broadbent is right in my book and maybe it was content for content's sake but thats neither here nor there. It all comes out in the wash. Look at Valheim, 500k, now barely anything. Ark is the true king of that genre. People didn't like it when he didn't jump on the bandwagon. I never hopped on the bandwagon either and now I am a pariah. lol. You digging this, why would I pay ANY heed to gerbles online? I am not referring to our esteemed youtuber btw. Others....

    I also get a bad wrap on this forum. But the post I quoted, mostly agree. In life you have got to smell the winds of change - I did, and when I CALL upon others to smell them too - mate.... they don't want to. Its not a grudge I intend to let cloud my judgement.

    See, thats your PC, thats 'your game'.... guess what - its all our reality I would say to people. That was such a reasoned video on the matter - and in context - all of his videos on the matter, I am impressed.

    Its why I reduced, reduced, reduced, and slowed, slowed, slowed the rack-turning on the TX from the center to turn transition, but increased the precision and speed at which I can turn... the custom file I made recently. Yes, the makings of a good game are there in terms of outright sim. Its enjoyable, but come on guys, the cars bounce as if they are balloons. All except the GTE's, they are fantabulous, and the rocco I was able to make flat as a pancake.

    And f1 reiza at speilberg and Laguna seca, possibly others. I want to point out that /when/ the game is firing on all cylinders its not bad to the point of being wow one more lap or wow that was so cool, and you can feel how low slung those cars are to the ground, when. We can't expect the guy or anyone, me, you, others to ever see the 1 or 3 cars or 1 or 3 tracks...this stuff takes time and I hope the team does not give up on older tracks and all the rest.

    This is the same reason why you almost laugh at people now who sit on 90s sports bikes to go down to the shop on - they are flat, hard, etc...and cars with even moderately stiff suspension (like the ones you purchase with factory "sports" suspension the real types of those anyway, not a toyota, are so stiff they can be uncomfortable to certain people down the highway.

    Imagine how the DPI must be in terms of holding its line.

    I never drove one, but a ferrarai forget which year, was so stiff (they have a club in my state too so you sometimes see them drive around 20 or 30 of them at a time from all eras its magnificent) ...is so stiff you can't take it down to the shops, and another so stiff that it has a button to lift the front bumper.

    It wasn't until the mid 90s they actually began making them with such things in mind as a rich guy wanting to take it down the shops.

    Any time that tire is not on the road, and there's 4 on a car, is a moment there is zero acceleration or forward momentum at least and definitely no ideal acceleration or grip to lead to the optimal.

    __

    I know some guys on this forum are after 1 year of all that stuff from the world about the game, sensitive, ok, should just remember it can be a really fun game. Some stuff is top notch but may expect that with so many cars/tracks. He saw what he saw. I saw it too. It is possible to enjoy a game even if its not 100% realistic.

    But others would have to give their opinions. I am but one purchaser. I can see both sides, but people might have to drop the notion of the perfect sim or something. Its like the old addage, if you have to ask then you don't know. As far as I know JB drives a lot of decent specced vehicles, he articulates well, I don't think there's any room in his words to say otherwise. There's no other way to frame "there's still work to be done".

    But of all the cars and tracks I did, the cream was of course the GTE Porsche at Nords with my custom and the rocco (didn't try a whole heap of cars), that was top notch. But remember I tried to get it to be a different paradigm - rack-oriented, vibration, turn, and only at the end did I wonder about slip. The slip is forgiving, but when you thrash the daylights out of the cars, in those circumstances it was enthralling. Stiff. The slip, well its there isn't it, but with all the dynamism, it will take ages don't sugar coat it, to nail it all. Thats going to be a great day surely, but for now, you got to dig a little deeper.

    This is just commentary, the truth is man, play it as much as you want. Jimmy does, I do, so should everyone. Maybe the Porsche was a little too tight for slip at nords at high speed - the old can't rotate problem came back or maybe a twitch-like ability to react just in time on a tx wheel - but see I get what he says I saw it first hand today. That some spots you want the 'real' line on the graph, well in AMS2 it can be at times either one: its under, in others its over, and in others it hits the spot. So there will be no day where the game is 'finished'.

    The problem is when people want to 'reason' that virtualization, into reality. Its got to HIT the spot on your graph in real life, mate. There's good in this game. Don't worry. I'm not subbed to him but will watch a video now and then, and people were scratching their heads when he didn't like the game. If you've never 'seen it' then how would you know? is the old adage. The guy is not joking, I don't care what he does corporately or anything, it was a very reasoned video.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  5. farcar

    farcar Well-Known Member

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    I can't really speak for the DPI specifically as I haven't driven it much, but Live Track in combination with the accelerated timescale he raced with, he'd have experienced a multitude of different feelings during that race, right - with the sudden temperature changes?
     
  6. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    People could well discuss why he chose to show the dpi car - which I think is especially lacklustre as now are the AJR's etc since the update - and its as I expect, I expect those to fall because they may have been fun but they were off.

    So why did he choose to show the dpi when we all know the porsche is one of the best - and why daytona when we all know that longbeach or laguna seca could have been more in line?
    lol you know how smart I am. not very. Well read anyway>> Long post must mean "I will tell you why"

    You got to ask, but I am not wondering, I have my own opinions, - but if you really want to get some proper 20-20 insight into the issue, people should start with why did he show the DPI? And what does it mean!?

    The reason to me, is no one else had. That answer if you deduce and use your critical thinking skills will tell you more than you could ever know. He's not there to give the game a wet one. He needed content and a wow moment to make the video fire. He had a game with new content and in the genre he is known for. He will try it sure. Then the rest happened. Oh well.

    This leads me to say that he did what he did, for himself, as is his want, on his own channel. But the game was found lacking.

    Now, when you remove Jimmy and any possible bias (as we all have bias) from the equation - you are left with a game that was found wanting on some levels and he went over it and told us why he thought it was lacking - there is nothing untoward about that.

    It was a neutral video. Nothing to see that was abnormal. You really think a guy like him who made like 1000 decently produced videos is going to let an editor release a snarky video or a 'grubby' video?

    Do you play rugby union or the rugby league rules from which NFL came? Grub tactics are a thing, even in soccer. Not so much in NFL. I detected virtually zero in his video. Sure, if he personally deep down, which he disclosed, didn't like something, its there, but the video didn't really have an agenda. So don't get spooked by it, people. It is what it is, a car, at a track, that was found lacking.

    This, coming from me who drove the rocco with a setup, at a specific track (yes in dynamic conditions) and with a specific custom file, and that file is based around the steering rack and experience there OVER the simulation. I thoroughly enjoyed the rocco - amazing. The porsche yes it was tight but no the TX unfortunately didn't do it enough justice but only by maybe 5% either side in terms of slip and best line, but up on the nord I like it though at some of those speeds I thought it may stick when it didn't if the rest was anything to go by; however I would hazard a guess as its in dev some things will be ironed out. Pretty wow though. So I talk as someone who had that experience.

    BUT JIMMY, people, this post is getting long already but the content is solid - drove a car that was lacking, at a track that was lacking but which had nice weather, against cars that were lacking.

    EVEN despite my experience of the title, I can admit this. Its ok. Nah its not ideal.

    Point: But there is more lacking than there is not lacking. And for a moment - as its a different conversation, you believe AC and ACC is 'not quite there' well thats a different discussion.

    So we can't just cherry pick. I hope what I am saying makes sense. What he showed was indicative, demonstrable. Good on him.

    You know darwin came from his country don't you? I don't think the guy is wondering about scientific method - not when they sorted out the diseases in the Thames all those years ago, they never looked back actually, because they thought it was god until they worked out it actually wasn't god that spread the disease. It was a solid video.

    Unintended double entendre. But you will work it out, I trust. Even when the evidence is staring at you, let alone people trying to make it fit into their brains. omg, whatever follows - answer. The video should be useful, take it for what it is and stop trying to twist the world to conform to your view.
     
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  7. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Olijke Poffer Reiza Backer

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    you must have more time than I. You have often lengthy posts…:D
     
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  8. sk8

    sk8 Member

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    He is right about several key aspects though.
    The suspension in AMS 2 is weird.
    The sim also feels more like a beta than a v1.0.
    Default set ups are for grannies in most cases.
    Not all cars are up to scratch. Even ones from launch.

    Personally I love this sim. I've enjoyed experiencing the development. I also believe it can become the best sim out there eventually.

    But for the average Joe who wants to simply pick up and play, it can be a headache.

    I think Jimmer was a bit more fair this time. Even though I wish he would rather drive one of the better cars in his review.

    Those coming from pc2 will love ams2 immediately vs those coming from ams 1 who will rightfully be rather cynical. Hence Jimmer.

    Reiza is starting to flex their dev muscles again though and are well on their way to creating the best sim out there.
     
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  9. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Free ****ing speech Reiza Backer

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    In the latest beta the DPI feels better again....I wonder if any of Jimmy's comments had an impact on how it changed?
     
  10. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    nah its more that I am doing case studies in these areas.

    That I have to write so much shows that there is so much wrong with things.

    Just say Jimmy was paid by iRacing - I say this because I go down to the earliest most fresh comments, as people will read the ones prior...that question came up or a similar thing in the video comments...so take the theme for one moment: Assume for that one moment this were true, or any company. And he still didn't like AMS2. Would it be any different?

    Half the concurrent player base in views have come by this thread. I said it above actually a nugget of truth. He plays it as much as he wants. I do too. You do. They do.

    They don't listen to me. They don't have to - the reality will happen with or without them.

    When I first came to the forum I mentioned f1 20xx...the fanboyz didn't like it. Its so ghey

    I will spell it out for them IIIIITSS! THE sammme...genre.... but its a better game. Where that leaves AMS2, fk me I don't know. But I know they're not going to work it out for the studio. People are always going to compare. The fact this is an actual thread of its own is far more telling than the fact Jimmy Broadbent made a video on the game!

    --

    Why do you think Broadbent does videos to a sub base of 700k? But the title can only address the marketshare of maybe a few thousand. Its back to front even that I am getting 'ignored' though they do not actually ignore me.

    If people have to censor then something is really up. The first time I logged onto the forums actually was when I said he despite the physics guys I think its fun! smiley face.... and they said "if ytou just want fun, forget it!"

    THIS is why the genre is a difficult pickle, but its also why I know they're mong lords. Its a computer game. Its not a real car. If broadbent didn't like it, he didn't like it. People might want to start asking why other titles are not lumped with that kind of thing. F1 is not exactly the most realisitic but its more substatial or whatever it is, that makes it tick.

    Anyway. Its hard to talk sense about the non sensical aspects this forum has turned to. Just that, mate, I know - when someone trys to censor me, and my truths, they're next to frked. About anything. Its one of those sign posts. Walk into any boardroom in the world, and if the data is being ignored or something, well yeah we're all old enough to understand its not good.

    Not every product (I am a products person) is destined or is owed success. But its not that, we could add many components to the AMS2 stack but its not improving it as is. Further - the fact those fanboyz reckoned I was not allowed to have fun in the product spoke volumes. And despite my best efforts to let someone from a TOWN WITH ONE ROAD! , by a coast line - he lived near a beach in a country area according to him, that he didn't know how cars drove....lol...there were so many laughs about that,...THEN I lol sorry its funny, then I went and did a proper force feed back file for him and the other users...which I think actually they would benefit from it a little if only it could work on their wheel.

    Well yeah. Its a troubling project, because I think the laser eyes on execution are not where they need to be, and now as it goes on and the content is not working (but may in future) those eyes of what to do next etc will become more constrained.

    It should of been a project that did aim for a raceroom type thing, in hindsight, or as I hinted at a little, one that should put up a 'under construction' sign on the main page basically, manage expectations and try as he might the very good lead dev is trying, and then consider this forum is not associated closely with them, but it should of grown into itself better.

    Besides that, it could have been better received, but a video is just one section of the market. They're simmers and they don't like the product, but a few do. Its not up to me though to decide whats a good result. I already own it. Its like I said its more telling the brittle people of the forum believe the video needs taking down, then the video existing in the first place. So should the video be existential in nature - a guy not liking the game overly much but wishing it well? lol. But I am not being too hard am I, afterall some of these guys are teenagers.
     
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  11. sampopel

    sampopel Active Member

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    Yeah, whilst it's understandable why he picked the DPI, it's one of the cars that I don't like (yet) and I would have come to a similar conclusion as Jimmy if that was the only car I'd tried. I would also have come to a similar conclusion about rFactor2 if I'd only tried some of its lesser cars.

    But there are numerous cars which (imo) currently feel significantly better than the DPI and some of these didn't used to feel particularly good, so there's very clear progress being made regarding physics and car handling. His review doesn't convey that.

    For the purposes of a review, it would have been better if he'd included a few more cars in order to come to a more balanced conclusion about the current state of play. At least Jimmy seems to be open minded to having his opinion change, rather than just writing off the game for good.
     
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  12. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Simply, this is why he is popular in the first place. Its 1:1 just a guy with a computer and race wheel, playing a game. He may have partnerships, but he's not spinning bulldust or sprouting nonsense and he never overplays his hand like he is a racing god or something, he is down to earth. Its what youtube was founded on essentially.

    This is where the product could be better. Its not his fault - its the product. Its not any one person. Its an aim. Why for example are the cars not listed as 'working/not working'. Or ranked from working to not - or a big 'under construction' disclaimer about the product.

    Its because they wanted to sell you a product. Not a half-product. See....

    don't blame jimmy. I don't care if 10 oppositional company's were/are/might flip him 20 bucks because he dared to say a word against the game. Does anyone really think that?

    Mate - I made a custom file specifically to tighten up the wheel for precision and the cars, and its closer than any of the others (I promise you I actually had a better time doing the rocco on nords than at ANY SIM, ever), but thats not the point.... and the porsche at nords even was not turning at high speed by being a little tight - the cars are across a wide spectrum. Its the nature of the game and it could have been better indicated to people.

    People don't like confusion. People can't even separate their own opinions from those of others, we don't make good eye witnesses, and we have bad memories about details. I am just saying it is what it is, all the comments on the page get built up from a single source. No one knows how it will sprout - but to start with there is a source, a product, an occurrence. He was pulling no punches - so why do you want him to show the absolute best light. It does not add up why he has to. Why would you want him to? Shouldn't the product have some consistency?

    I tell you what - sell something for 10 bucks to someone, like AC, they won't ask you so hard. But if you have to explain to a layman why physics thing x does not work over at place y - he will begin to wonder if its broken. You can't go up to that man or woman then and say "hey! you're a human being and being wrong about value interpretation" You sold him the product, and this is why we have return policy's.

    Don't begin to wonder if its J Broadbent. lol. Its not. He could literally be any one ever.
     
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  13. stealthradek

    stealthradek Active Member

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    Could one of the admins enable some character limits for @Raceracerace posts please? :whistle: :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Gagaryn

    Gagaryn Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Click Raceracerace > Click ignore.
    Zero character limit (effectively) engaged.
     
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  15. David Peres

    David Peres Active Member

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    Jimmy might be right about some of his complaints (I agree with some of them, like it being weird how you can eliminate understeer by just pushing the throtle and turning the wheel more, at least with some cars), but regardless of how he feels about the current state of the game, if I where in his position I would certainly make an effort not to be so negative if for nothing else, out of respect for the constant effort and updates that Reiza is putting on improving the physics, which should be enough to show that they are serious about making AMS2 as much of a realistic sim as AMS1 was.

    It might be not there yet, but Reiza are certainly one of the "good guys" of sim racing, when it comes to having their priorities on the right place, and someone with such a big audience and so much influence in this community as Jimmy has might be very destructive with his opinions, and Reiza doesn't deserve that.

    In short, I'm not saying that Jimmy shouln't point out what he thinks to be flaws with the title, but that he should maybe be a bit more balanced because AMS2 is also doing a lot of good stuff and a few cars are already as good if not better than they were in AMS1, and Jimmy loved AMS1. I just think he's been overly biased against the Madness Engine being used since the beginning and because of that he hasn't given the game a fair chance.
     
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  16. Cully

    Cully Active Member Reiza Backer

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    JB hasnt bothered with AMS2 for so long but suddenly when he sees other YT creators enjoying it he wants to be involved in some way
    He stopped being relevant a long time ago but sadly the sheep will follow.
     
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  17. Alexandre Sene

    Alexandre Sene Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Most of the time I don't agree with the opinion of these youtubers!!! at the end of the day it's normal players like us posing as a checker.

    I've watched several of them murdering ACC during the beginning. I played ACC and thought, the game is amazing, I don't understand the criticisms. Of course it has bugs and defects but in general, just details. It is practically impossible to give credit to the silly criticisms that these influencers eventually make, sometimes it even seems to me that they wait for the opinion of others to follow their own and attend to some particular interest.

    On the other hand, we have in this forum a series of fanboys who go crazy if someone criticizes AMS2. By the way, I'm a fanboy too.

    Our beloved game has a lot of bad details, lets face that but is very clear that its going to right way imo. Renato himself asked us many times to be patient.

    For me, I'm no longer worried about physics and sounds because with the releases of the GTEs... it was evident that the path is correct, now it's a matter of time, work and the right people to keep this game growing.
     
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  18. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    just come up with solutions. never mind the characters. do a survey what do you like and don't like about the game, etc. its just all mental silliness man. you're wasting your energy. Go and find out what the 200 players are playing it for. I think I legitimately got my moneys worth, anyway. Its all gravy after this. For me. For them, they have sold x amount, gte is great but whats next. This month has not seen a dramatic rise.

    Its like some commenters say on the video the most popular day was back when it launched - and the most amount of users has declined since then. Its no more popular than that day.

    I mean, I don't know - did J Broadbent lie to you or something, because the metrics would suggest otherwise. Here we go - more mental dithering.

    Ummmmm. bzzzzzt! wrong answer - I am right. As I said probably need surveys not questioning the validity of J Broadbent's video.

    And surveying the people who already bought it, is a massive error. There's fk all of us. Sorry if I am not tripping over myself to - you know another game I made an error on? Green Hell. Forgive me if I am not rushing to either you or me lol to find out. I don't mind - I got my 50 to 100 out of it.

    You've got to start listening. Not ignoring.
     
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  19. Raceracerace

    Raceracerace Active Member

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    Yeah congratulations. Foolish in the extreme. This is a duplicate product at this stage - and its doing the things ALL the others do, WORSE. Is that short enough for you lol I know this stuff.

    When someone sits down to play they want to enjoy themselves. If you're not enjoying yourself on here with me, then you're not playing... you get it? The forum is not playing so much as its understanding, you're just too young or naïve and like everyone under the age of 25 you probably think you know everything ever.

    I couldn't care if you stood up there with a bra on and pink underwear - you're not going to get a role at a strip club, or put a steering wheel in front of you and wear a helmet - you're not a race car driver...OR sit someone in front of AMS2 and make them enjoy it.

    They won't. Do you want to ignore the stark reality (at this time). Stop saying he didn't try x car or y car or A,B,C...stop saying if only you could get your buddies to play the game, or multiplayer worked...

    The addressable market has been addressed. This is 2021, subscription economy's. Right, if you don't get the good review, thats it. You got to start telling the devs something different. The guy is not blowing smoke up butts, 300k watched his last review, no movement, same story, he's not telling fibs dude. He's not there pressing the 'suppress' button like you are on me, or pressing the 'ignore' button like you are on me - it is what it is, whether I am telling you or anyone else. Lots of people play PC games, its a big market and we can chart and speculate and basically know its expected growth - ok? - and AMS2 did not grow.

    You pressed ignore - you gave me the bad review. Then I know you're full of it.
     
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  20. stealthradek

    stealthradek Active Member

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    @Raceracerace can you at least provide TL;DR for your posts, similar to @BrunoB's "By the way" part?

    Some things require to be elaboratively explained, some are just noise and irrelevant. Stick you the essentials and people would actually start reading your posts ;)
     
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