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Next Level Racing Motion Platform & Tactile/Buttkicker w/ AMS

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Spin, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Does anyone here use the Next Level Motion and/or a tactile transducer? I just bought an NLM v3 along with a Buttkicker Gamer 2 and looking for other people's settings, opinions, advice, and general discussion. Thanks!
     
  2. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Active Member

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    I have used various tactile units on my rig. The first was the BK-Gamer2, soon after I added a second one but, still wanted more vibes. I later sold one and gave the other to my son. I already had SimCommander (with SimVibe) for my AccuForce wheel so that was a no-brainer to drive the system.

    "Variety is the Spice of Life" - I then came to the conclusion that I wanted to add more variation in tactile design and added an array of 4 mini-pucks mounted to a single piece of corrugated plastic which rested between my seat-back and a gel seat-pad. That array actually produced more vibrations for very little cost because it was in such close contact to my body.

    "School thy self" - That led me to researching options in regard to mounting various size transducers using different brackets, springs and dampeners but, my rig was unusual because I used an office chair at my desk for racing. I knew that I wanted to have a very broad range of vibe-effects that no amount of small transducer's could provide.

    "Go BIG or Go Home" - Realizing that I already had a suspension seat that was both sprung and included internal dampening, I set out to attach a BK-LFE (Big Kahuna) to my office chair. I purchased and modified a drum-throne bracket and mounted the BK-LFE to my office chair, attached it to an iNuke NU3000 amp (can do 5hz) and brought some real "thump" to my game.

    "Captain, we need more detail" - The LFE really does large road bumps, shift-effects and impacts well but, the frequencies are limited to slower rates so I then added 2 ADX bass-shakers (powered by a single iNuke NU1000 amp) under the front of the seat / left / right sides. Those represented the front left / right suspension bumps through SimCommander. I used some 3mm aluminum to form simple brackets that could use leverage to increase the vibe effects and it worked out really well.

    "Good Vibrations" - The key to making this tactile setup so effective was the fact that the seat could move up and down on a spring, it had dampening and was designed to hold my weight. For comparison, I once mounted the LFE directly to my current 80/20 frame with the seat hard-mounted and it was rendered almost completely ineffective at producing vibrations.

    "Conclusion Regarding the Illusion" - Tactile Vibes are great and I suspected my setup was - maybe, more effective than most due to the sprung nature of the office chair and how it isolated and directed the vibe-energy directly to my body. It wasn't until I built my current rig that I knew how effective it actually was.

    "A Better Mouse-trap, albeit, very expensive" - My new rig uses the D-box (1.5" travel) which can do tactile vibes quite effectively so I no longer use the transducers but, there are some things that they did better. There are things the D-box does (motion & heave) that the tactile alone can't of course, so I don't miss it too much but, it does confirm my belief that I had achieved very successful tactile design through experimentation and effective use of directing vibe-energy. Consideration of mass, leverage and dampening properties can make a huge difference in the outcome so it pays to do some homework and get creative.
     
  3. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    I downloaded SimShaker Wheels and noticed I had hardly any bumps or "road noise" in AMS. Only curbs were being felt...I thought the problem was with SimShaker Wheels so I bought SimVibe and I'm having the exact same problem, there are hardly any bumps or road noise being felt.

    There is a big bump on the entry of turn 1 at Buenos Aires #9 and this is not felt at all, not the slightest.

    I'm starting to think there's an issue with AMS and not the tactile software because the same lack of bumps and road noise is happening with, both, SimShaker Wheels and SimVibe.

    What's going on???
     
  4. heideracer

    heideracer New Member

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    I am using simvibe to and must say AMS is providing very good if not the best tactile information/data there is. Though it needs its time to dial it in. You have to learn the various different effects and tune them to your liking. It is not plug and play, but when done right it is AMAZING. Unfortunatly the simvibe software is not very intuitive, so you must find your way through, but i think at last it pays off.
     
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  5. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    I was just about to make a video showing how no bumps were coming through (only engine revs and shifts working) and then it started working. It was probably the 10th time I opened AMS before it started working. Weird.

    Bumps still don't feel like bumps though. If I drive over a big bump, I expect a hard thump to hit me...A single, strong thump...Instead, the Buttkicker is outputting multiple hits at a certain frequency.

    Why would a single bump in the game - what should be a single "thump" from the transducer - be outputted with a bunch of bumps at "x" frequency? This, to me, tells me this system is not truly following game physics. A single thump in the road should be a single thump from the transducer, not a barrage of bumps at "x' frequency.

    Also, and perhaps more concerning, the dynamic range isn't good. The big bump at the entrance to turn 1 @ Buenos Aires #9 barely outputs anymore power from the transducer than lighter bumps. I made sure to turn down the amp so it's not clipping. The forces should be scaled to one-another but I'm not getting much variation in strength of bumps. It's like the Buttkicker only knows 2 different bumps, strong and light rather than being in-tune with the actual physics data. :confused:
     
  6. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    It's getting a little better. I just discovered that you can add more types of effects than what's listed. I still can't get bumps scaled to one another though :(

    Can you load the F301 at Buenos Aires #9 and tell me if you get a big hit when hitting the big bump at the entrance to turn 1? I've tried the following individually and all at once but failed:
    - road bumps
    - road texture
    - front suspension bumps
    - front suspension surges
    - vertical surges
    - vertical texture

    You can visually see the car hitting a big bump there yet you don't get a big kick from the transducer yet, at other corners with way smaller bumps and going 1/4th the speed, you get big kicks from the transducer. It makes no sense.



    P.S. on the brighter side, "engine vibration w/ harmonics & load" and "engine RPM quad stream" are so cool and way better than the default "engine vibration."
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  7. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Active Member

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    IIRC, the road bumps don't work in AMS but, I could be wrong. I believe I used the Suspension Bumps Surge effects for road bumps (Large BK) and some other effect for surface details.

    SimVibe effects can be combined or layered in various ways but, the real limitations are in how much vibe-output the transducers can effectively transfer; there is a point where things become too muddy and lack clarity when over done. That's another reason why I prefer the combination of transducers that are varied in size and frequency, it really broadens the range of effects that can be felt.

    Some effects support different filters such as "Speed-based Volume". I found that to be very useful in conveying a more intense sense of speed vs the standard settings.
     
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  8. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    If SimVibe is connected to AMS' physics/telemetry, why wouldn't bumps work???...
     
  9. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Active Member

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    I don't know the technical reason but, different titles may utilize certain effects in SimVibe whereas another may not. Apparently, telemetry data can vary from one title to the next and not all provide the same level of detailed data.

    It's much the same with the D-box software, some titles have more or less effects than others and some even have no advanced settings at all.
     
  10. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Things are improving more. There are effects and filters you can add which aren't listed by default which helps improve things.

    There are certain curbs in AMS that don't have any feedback. it's like 50% do but 50% don't. AMS only uses real, 3d geometry curbs, right?

    Yes, not very intuitive. There needs to be much, much more explanation of all the different effects, adjustments of effects, filters, etc. And it's not always that intuitive, you're right. I still don't know how to get it to recognize rFactor 1. You'd think it'd be as simple as creating a new profile and pointing to the rfactor.exe file, lol.
     
  11. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Active Member

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    IIRC, in general - not all curbs on race-tracks have rumble-contours; some are smooth and simply painted stripes on flat or raised surfaces.

    ISI-based titles need to have the correct plug-in installed and while SC4 is supposed to automatically install it, it doesn't necessarily work 100% of the time for one reason or another. Also, be sure the plug-in is enabled and it may be useful to test both 32-bit vs 64-bit where possible to rule out certain issues.

    I had a case where the Fanatec software was interfering with rF2 and causing the game to crash; a firmware update (Fanatec) solved it for me that time but, the 32-bit version worked fine vs. the 64-bit version. That provided me a clue as to the actual cause.

    SimXperience is said to be working on a new version of the software that will bring new features and include proper documentation and other improvements. No word on when that might arrive but, they occasionally hint at ongoing work behind the scenes.
     

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