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Replicating Michael Schumacher's Imola 94 lap?

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Amanda, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    Hey guys!

    I just bought the Imola track pack for AMS and I'm so glad it contains the 88 version! It's my favorite version of the track.

    Now, considering I'm Brazilian and that track is special for all the good and bad reasons you can imagine, I was thinking of driving some F1 cars there. I noticed AMS has "F1 V10" and "F1 V12". To me it seems that the V12 car is more suited for the 1994 period - however, I cannot replicate the lap times they had in that year.

    With the V12, all assists off, I can barely break the 1:29:00 barrier, which is 7.1 seconds slower than the qualifying laps according to the TV broadcast of the time.

    However, I can replicate the laptimes with the V10, but I'm not sure the car is period correct. Traction control and grooved tires? I remember Senna complaining about FOM removing driving aids before he died, so I don't think I should be using the V10 car.

    Is the V10 F1 car plausible or even comparable to some of the cars that raced at Imola that year?

    It feels so wrong using the V10 car but it's the only car which I can replicate his corner speeds and the overall lap times (on a side note, I'm better at corner exits because of TC, and Michael is way better than me on braking).

    Or am I just too slow with the V12?

    Thanks

     

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  2. alexSchmurtz

    alexSchmurtz Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I have no idea which of the 2 cars would be best suited, I hope other people will jump in and help!

    But I wanted to suggest looking at the best times from Time trials on Virtualxperience.net. You've got some aliens doing 1:25s or even 1:24 with the V12! Still quite slower than Schumi... :)
    You can download the setups from virtualxperience.net btw, maybe it will help you? (Disclaimer: using a setup from an alien doesn't make you an alien...:whistle:)
     
  3. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    The V12 reprsents the 1995 Ferrari 412T2, the V10 is a 2001 or 2002 car. Neither one of them is not really suited IMO. The V12 is closer by years, but wasn't a very good car in 1995.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  4. alink

    alink Active Member

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    in 1994 (till Imola) the cars were powered by an 3.5L engine with about 900hp. After Imola, there was implemented air restrictor to reduce the power. In 1995 (which is the V12 car) the cars were powered by an 3.0L engine with about 650 - 700hp. Also, the aerodynamic grip was reduced (just compare the high of rear wing between 1994 and 1995). Further, till 1994 the cars had a flat bottom, since 1995 (till now) there is an wooden plate mounted at the bottom. After the race, the thickness of the wooden plate is measured. If it is too thin (car has bottom out too much / too often) the car is disqualified. The wooden plate should avoid the the teams set the car too low (reducing center of gravity for higher corner speed).
    This are possible reasons why you don't reach the real time from 1994 and you are much slower.

    If you compare Interlagos 1994 and 1995:
    Pole-time in 1994: 1:15.962*
    Pole-time in 1995: 1:20.081*
    is a difference of 4.1 seconds
    Interlagos is up on 700m which means the aerodynamic effect is weaker than on sea level. That means, the aero-restrictions for 1995 had a fewer effect
    *as given on wikipedia
     
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  5. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    Thank you all!

    I went after some more info on this. The 1988-1994 track is not suited for the 1995 car, or rather, the 1995 will never replicate the 1994 car on the same track. Instead, the "2001" Imola is suited for the 1995 car.

    So, with the 1995-2001 track, and the 1995 car, Schumacher did a 1:27:2. I'm able to do a 1:30:5. Just goes to show how much skill Schumacher had!

    Still, I'm glad I'm "F1 material" when it comes to lap times lol
     
  6. Sevach82

    Sevach82 New Member

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    I was about to say this, 95 cars were made much slower for safety.
     
  7. mister dog

    mister dog Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Senna's last pole and you chose Schumacher '94 as a reference :(
     
  8. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    I was about to say to rather try and match Berger's qualifying lap because he drove the same car we have in game, but then again that 0:008 slower won't really make that much of a difference :)
     
  9. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    I couldn't find video of Senna's pole at the time :(
     
  10. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    LMAO
     
  11. mister dog

    mister dog Active Member Reiza Backer

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    ;)
     
  12. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    Thanks, but I couldn't find a complete video of his onboard camera.
     
  13. alink

    alink Active Member

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    Till 1996 they used special qualifying tires (as you can use with the f-classic cars which symbols the 1988 season). These were extremly soft and last only 3 till 4 laps (or maybe max. 50km). With these tyres the cars were 2 - 4 seconds faster (depending on how curvy the track is). These kind of tyres are forbidden since 1997.
    In AMS you only have one compound for V12 and these are no qualifying tires
    So you have to compare your laptime with the fastest race lap. This was 1:29.568 (Gerhard Berger / Ferrari). That means you are only 1 second slower. So hurry up, try to find this second!!!
     
  14. Amanda

    Amanda New Member

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    Oooh I see. I see such tire on the 1988 car, I'll try that later :)

    Is there any good 1994 MOD? (free or paid, it doesn't matter)
     
  15. john Ellis

    john Ellis Member

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    If any of Reiza’s cars’s simulated performance in AMS2 EA were indeed lap-time accurate at this point, why would anyone on this forum actually imagine they were capable of approaching Senna’s or Schumi’s laptimes?
     
  16. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    I can't see why not.

    While especially those two were very fast in real life, as a simracer, you have a lot of advantages. You can do basically an unlimited amout of laps any time you want, you have stable conditions (track, weather, tires, fuel, traffic, ...), you don't have to fear for your life or your car if you overcook it, so you can take way more risks. You don't get tired as easily because there are no g-forces. You have no running costs (tires, fuel, brake pads, ...)

    Aris from Kunos laid that out in one of his recent streams.
     
  17. john Ellis

    john Ellis Member

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    Given the numerous discrepancies listed above between real life and any sim at this point, such lap time comparisons are arguably problematic. Even if the two experiences yield identical laptimes, there remain too many missing variables on the sim side to permit a valid, direct comparison.
     
  18. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    So first you doubt anyone could achieve a faster lap time and when argued against, suddenly any comparison would be invalid anyways, even if your scenario of point accurate versions of car and track yould be fulfilled?
     
  19. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    As far as appearances, from what I can tell, the Formula V12 is a 1995 Ferrari 412t2. The Formula V10 is an early 2000s F1 car. I cant quite place what it actually is modeled after, but compare it to a 2000 Williams FW22, or a 2001 BAR Honda. Those cars were very, very fast, so it makes sense you'd get closer with it. But I wouldnt stress over trying to match laptimes in era correct cars. There's so many variables to getting that right.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  20. Timmy777

    Timmy777 New Member

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    I've did Senna's and Shumi's qualifying times in Assetto Corsa using ACFL Cars. I even adjusted power of the engines and weight of car's from information I got off the internet. I think Senna had about 830 to 840HP at Imola and Shumi had about 793HP with high mid's. The poles times and power of engines seem to sync with lap-times, the MP4/9 had about 760HP at Imola and it was below the Benetton. But I'll doubt the handling of the car's would be the same as in the simulation. I also suspect the Benetton had a really high power delivery with Traction Control. If you watch him at Imola at certain segments you will see mass acceleration without spin, where if you watch Williams not so much also Monaco 1994 Pole Position, 1.18 time, I think it would be impossible without traction control. I couldn't do it with my tests.
     

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