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WHERE IS LIFT OFF OVERSTEER????????????

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by florian ray, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    Hey Community,
    Hey Reiza Development Team (if someone actually reads this thread)...,

    I do simracing for over 20 years now and I played EVERYTHING, most of it extensively, some of it more ;-). In the last few years I had lots of other things to handle (kids, wife, house, lotus 116, job, the other job,and the 3rd job). But the VR experience of Automobilista 2 brought me back to nearly daily racing.

    Automobilista 2 is far away from perfect (waiting times everywhere, no chat possibility immediately after race, VR HUD, powerfull cars much too easy to drive) but still by far the best regarding VR experience.

    ONE THING THOUGH IS REALLY BAD !

    WHERE THE F* IS LIFT OFF OVERSTEER?

    COAST DIFF CHANGES DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!

    Most cars are impossible to get an slip angle at the rears during coast, even when shifting down to rev limit.
    If this gets corrected a lot of "hardcore sim racers" would also use the sim more regularly... I am sure...

    BR

    Flo
     
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  2. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    To be sure put some more "?" in your title :rolleyes:;)
     
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  3. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    YOU PROBABLY HAVE A POINT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    BUT WHEN YOU GET MORE ACCUSTOMED TO AMS2 YOU WILL (HOPEFULLY) FIND THAT COAST HAS AN (AGREE) NIMBLE IMPACT!!!!!!!!!!!!:whistle:
     
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  4. oez

    oez Mayor of Long Beach Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    In the Caterham Academy.
     
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  5. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Free ****ing speech Reiza Backer

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    All FWD cars.
    While there may be some merit to this it really does seem GM's videos are having an impact.
     
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  6. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    The Mini is the best example. Such a lovely car.
     
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  7. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    Who is GM? I use my time rather to race than to watch others racing... YouTube or Twitch guys... No time for that sh*

    Actually I thought this (understeer when 0 throttle) on the first day I used Automobilista 2...
    Yesterday I tried again to race online with the 70s f1 cars, maaaan long tight corners do suck with these... It just feels sooo bad, which is really a pity. You can choose between unbelievable understeer in tight corners or unbelievable oversteer in fast corners... I tried offline to do a high 28 on interlagos classic (as someone on the server did) and the setup I actually made it with... is just **** (understeer not as bad but too much risk or too slow through the fast bends) and its impossible to do 3 fast laps in a row... As mentioned its a pity.
     
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  8. oez

    oez Mayor of Long Beach Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Yep F-Retro has been problematic for long. Basically as you noticed the clutch LS diff does not function correctly. You can have any values there, but it doesn't let go of its death grip at anything over ~80km/h.

    There's a loooong discussion about differential function on the physics thread. The gist of it is that if you look at telemetry (pics in the thread) rear tire speeds stay identical at high speeds and stabilise the rear where you would normally use mild coast instability to your advantage when turning in. And various other scenarios where this aspect of car control comes in like long medium speed corners. So something like the cup car at Ibarra T1.

    What I implied earlier is that you can feel expected dynamism on and off throttle in open diff cars such as the MCR2000, F-Vee, F-Trainer, Opalas, Caterham Academy and probably some others I can't remember off the top of my head. But a word of warning cause I realised something this week: AMS2 (and AMS1, and R3E since December, at least) has really sensitive throttle response in some cars compared to sims along the years. So you may need to lift more than expected to get a lot of liftoff oversteer in these open diff cars. Especially old ones which have carbs and/or have no fancy mapping.
     
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  9. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    Do you think this will be "corrected/improved" in the future?
     
  10. oez

    oez Mayor of Long Beach Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    Well we know that Reiza doesn't just settle with "ok" or "nearly there". But they're dealing with a simulation platform - or system - that only SMS has worked with before. It's far more complicated than the widely known rFactor engine they're used to and comes with its own ways of simulating car components (that add up to "the physics").

    They might have to learn the unfamiliar driveline model inside and out in order to figure out why clutch LS diffs end up behaving like they do. Maybe there's a bug in the driveline system, maybe there's a "gotcha" in per car configuration that nobody knows about yet. These same issues were already visible in PC2. They have of course changed some driveline configurations for their cars with sometimes unexpected results: a few major versions back many cars started to snap at slow speeds, cause diffs were effectively going from full lock to super open in a blink. That was fortunately fixed and now they do work pretty nicely at slow speed although still really on/off feeling.

    In other words I can't see why it wouldn't be improved, but who knows how much work and time it'll take. I hope now is a good chance since tires have taken a nice leap forward.
     
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  11. Simmo99x

    Simmo99x Active Member

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    If you cant get lift off oversteer your doing something very wrong...
    It's not achieved by simply coasting through a corner with a slight lift of the throttle.
    Turn in aggressively followed with lifting off the throttle and every car can achieve lift off oversteer in AMS2, some more than others.
    Weight transfer is needed.
    Done wrong and you will get understeer.
    Don't blame the sim.
     
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  12. steelreserv

    steelreserv Steelcast27 Reiza Backer

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  13. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    Ok simmo, not blame the sim? Sorry, but your post is so far away from the point... I am actually bored. Do I have to explain vehicle dynamics to you? Maybe Claude Rouelle can help ;-) His Seminars are for professionals (engineers) though, but maybe even guys who know everything can learn one or two things there.
     
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  14. steelreserv

    steelreserv Steelcast27 Reiza Backer

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    Please be pleasant. Simmo, Jedi and others here are well respected in this community.
    The point ppl are trying to make is LOOS is a part of the game. If you want to tune it into a car there are ways you can.
     
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  15. Shriukan

    Shriukan Touristenfahrten Community Reiza Backer

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    That kinda reply ain't gonna help ya around these parts. Allow others to disagree without being a jerk about it.
     
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  16. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    I have to admit, I unnecessarily felt simmos comment unpleasant. If someone disagrees he should (want to) understand whats the topic. If he isnt and then gives "well-intendet advices", maybe he should expect to also get an "well-intendet advice". Who he is related to this forum doesnt change anything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  17. Shriukan

    Shriukan Touristenfahrten Community Reiza Backer

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    Except he didn’t reply like an asshole. Doubling down won’t get people on your side.
     
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  18. florian ray

    florian ray New Member

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    My side? Maan? Really? No!
     
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  19. ramsay

    ramsay Member

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    I have only tried a few cars with the latest update but I find there seems to be more lift off oversteer than I recall prior to this update. This may be a placebo effect, but the amount can be adjusted with setup dependent on how much rotation you want.
     
  20. Alwin Papegaaij

    Alwin Papegaaij Active Member

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    Just did a session with the Brabham BT26a and for basically all corners you really need to stay off the throttle to be able to get some steering in. When off, you get a very nice, controllable amount of lift of oversteer, so yeah, it definitely is in there and simulated very nicely if I can say so.
     
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