Automobilista - How the FFB works and what is new about it

This is a good post, I think it would be great to have translated the discussion area in Portuguese

 

Thanl you for this post, it helped me a lot. In GSC I actually always user "Full" FFB settings, because I thought that gives me the 'full' experience. Well, it kind of did, but it was nur the purest

I already posed this question in the Force Feedback (FFB) thread (Logitech, Thrustmaster, Fanatec, OSW, etc.), but my experience is that while the low downforce cars feel amazingly good, the high downforce cars /Formula 1 mainly) clip a lot in fast corners, but if I reduce FFB either in general or the MaxForceAtSteeringRack parameter in the realfeel.ini, those same cars lose almost all detail in the slower corners.

Is there a way to cap the forces before they clip or modify the FFB linearity so its stronger at the low end but evens out at the top?

 

i do get the hard ffb in the f1 cars like you.. You may have to edit real feel ini. Im not entirely sure what to edit vo. ?!

 

In the thread I linked on the second page there is a link to a post from Niels at Race Department detailing the entries in the realfeel.ini. So, MaxForceAtSteeringRack is the FFB strength. By editing this, you essentially make the FFB weaker or stronger for the given car, but just linear. Like I described, if you tweak it to avoid clipping, it becomes very weak at low an mid-level speeds.

 

agreed.

 

I have a technical question about the FFB and RealFeel.

DefaultFrontGripEffect=0.200000

This line is in the RealFeelPlugin.ini file and 0.2 appears to be the default/overall setting. Is there a layperson's explanation of what exactly this variable does? Changing it has a profound effect on the FFB feel (not surprising!), but I suspect that it impacts different hardware in different ways. So to start, thanks for having an adjustment in the first place.

In my particular case, my hardware and/or some combination of my brain prefers lower values. I tried several cars at 1.0, 0.8, 0.2 and 0.0 to confirm. I always prefer 0.2 or less...often feeling that 0.0 is just great. I can imagine that 0.0 causes some issues of harshness on some systems, so not suggesting a change from the 0.2 default. But an explanation of what this is doing "under the hood" would be much appreciated and should be helpful for others who either want to experiment or because of their equipment may need to adjust to get the best experience out of the sim. Thanks!

 

I have a question regarding the Skip FFB Updates setting.

Have I understood that correctly, that the Skip Updates = 0 setting in the controller.ini only affects the canned effects and RealFeel always works at a maximum of 360Hz? So, by that logic, if I use the setting "Pure 360Hz", it should make no difference for me wether i set Skip Updates to 0 or 1?

 

1,a) What's Overall FFB Actually Doing?
What exactly does the in-game FFB overall strength slider do? If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't control, nor is it "connected", to RealFeel, so what really is it adjusting?

1,b)
How does it tie-in with RealFeel's "MaxForceAtSteeringRack"?

2,a) "Friction Coefficient": Negative and Half of "Damper Coefficient"?
Many guides and websites state that the controller.ini's "Friction Coefficient" should be A. set to a negative value ("Damper Coefficient" stays positive), and B. set to around 50% of the value of "Damper Coefficient". Is this true?

2,b)
Would this make no difference, at all, if using FFB mode "Pure"/"Low"?

3) "Force Exponent": Overall FFB Strength Output Linearity?
"FFB Steer Force Exponent" in the controller.ini sounds like it's the overall FFB output linearity (like rFactor 2's "Steering Torque Sensitivity" AKA "STS"). Is this true and does this setting still apply when using RealFeel and FFB mode "Pure"/"Low"?

4) "Force Output Max": 0.0 to Truly Use "Pure" FFB?
I've read from at-least two people that to truly disable all original FFB (except rumble-strip effects just in-case you race on a track which uses fake rumble strips), and therefore only use RealFeel FFB, that the controller.ini's "Steer Force Output Max" must be set to 0. Is this true?

5) "Force Input Max": Magical Value for Increased FFB Fidelity?
I remember reading a ton about changing the controller.ini's "Force Input Max" from 11500 to 65535. I think there's a setting in the RealFeel.ini containing the same value which you're then supposed to change and match (65535 instead of 11500). The 65535 value apparently offers greater fidelity/depth to the FFB or something. Is this true?

 

Welcome to the forum Niels been a fan of your work for awhile.
Hope to own a set of your pedals one day too.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you!

 

I heard that, while RealFeel is the best for "pure steering rack FFB", Leos FFB is the best for feeling tyre grip. I guess it's like a better version of the default controller.ini FFB with regards to the grip FFB settings?? Do you personally think there's any room for a RealFeel + Leo's FFB combination to be built natively into AM that way we can have tyre/grip based FFB (for those of us who like it) combined with RealFeel which would allow use to continue running Pure/Low FFB but with more tyre grip cues because of Leo's "marriage" with RealFeel?

I feel that getting a sense for pure tyre grip and slip and amounts of slip/grip (not steering forces, bumps, etc. which seem quite good) could use quite a bit of improving - regardless of car (overall game/engine thing) - but I guess it's just down to the ISI pMotor tyre model rather than a FFB "thing" since RealFeel is only using the steering rack forces.

 

Thanks for the explanation. It doesn't match why or how it seems I can feel exactly what the car is doing better when I set this to 0.0 instead of 0.2. And the higher values are extremely unsatisfying for me and my wheel...but I suspect someone out there might like them.

My perception as someone who drives real race cars occasionally and drives a high performance car (with manually adjustable racing dampers) as an everyday vehicle is that I can feel all four corners of the car in balance at 0. Anything above 0 and the bias starts moving toward the front of the car. At 1.0, I can only feel the front of the car. This does not sound like it aligns with what is really supposed to be happening...but it doesn't matter as we can adjust this if we need to. 0.2 is OK by the way. I had no major concerns about it as a default and would be acceptable to use if there was no adjustment.

But please, as you work towards a new system, please always leave major variables like this adjustable at least in the config files. I am convinced that with so many different types of hardware out there and the varying ways we humans perceive things, that a one-size-fits-all approach for a racing sim would be a disaster. So keep doing what you are already doing

I look forward to trying anything new in the beta process.

 

Hi, I have a question for the FFB dead zone problem. For wheels like G27, when you place your wheel in the center, and begin to rotate it, there is no torque output within certain degree. The output torque kicks in when you turn more. That makes your wheel a toy and kills immersion, especially when you drive straightforward. Lately on RD, there's an APP for Assetto Corsa called LUT generator. It checks your wheel torque output curve, and compensates the none linear torque output, to makes it linear from the center of your wheel. Assetto Corsa drives much better with this APP. So I wonder, if there is similar way (or any otherway) to make AMS kill FFB dead zone in the wheel center area? I really looking forward to seeing this problem solved.

 

@Transyt Perhaps this is helping you

From the Steam discussions

I have noticed some people complaining of a massive hole in the FFB with G27 wheel.
The way I fixed it is to download a small app called wheelcheck.exe and check your wheel's "Min Force" setting, mine is 14.5% by the way.
Then edit your controller.ini and change the FFB steer force neutral function from "0.00000" to "0.14500" (in my case) which is 14.5% as a decimal. If your wheel Min Force is 8.5% then change it to "0.08500" for example. Then save the file and the hole in your FFB should have gone. I actually set mine at 0.13500 to give a small amount of leeway to prevent overcompensating.

You can also improve the feel of FFB further by removing the default FFB deadzone which is meant to prevent wheel oscillation. Edit this line in controller.ini FFB steer force neutral range="0.04500" and change it to "0.00000". You might have to increase this slightly if you get wheel oscillation but mine works fine set at zero.

If anybody wants more detail about this let me know. This works for me but obviously there are differences in PCs and wheels which means it might not work for you, but give it a try and let me know if it improves FFB for you.

Cheers
GLYGOO

 

Hi, thanks! I tried, it helps a little. But it improves much in packing lot situation. When it drives, the dead zone is back. I also noticed that formula cars have the narrow dead zone comparing to road cars, and high speed situation has narrow dead zone comparing to low speed. Maybe I should check into real feel plugin. It looks like you can not completely eliminate dead zone. Any chance of official support for LUT calibration?

 

I'm still not happy with my Accuforce Settings. I don't feel the car as I could with GSCE. In high speeds it's ok...but in speeds below let's say 150km/h the FFB gets very loose. On low speeds, I don't feel the car like I did in GSCE. For example on the start, I could control the slide very well..could regulate the throttle so good, since I felt everything in the wheel. Now, no chance anymore...

Is there a way that I can get the exact same feeling as in GSCE? Can I use the figures from realfeel.ini from GSCE?

I run the wheel on 360 pure. Skip updates at 3.

Niels, did you ever do a realfeel.ini or controller.ini for DD wheels?