Any response to Billy Strange Saying the Cars are too "bouncy"

People are allowed to imply or state explicitly that they don't like something. I prefer rF2 over AMS2 (there you go, I've said it), but I still quite like AMS2 (warts and all), and I prefer both over ACC, but ACC still has its plus points. We're at risk of sounding a bit precious if nobody can say or even imply anything bad about our beloved AMS2.

 

I don't think anybody said he should like AMS2, and if they did, they're wrong. Like I said above, it's OK to not like something.

We're questioning if one should state his opinion on a car publicly after ~30 minutes of driving it on stock setup - one cannot be sure if its a bad car or simply a bad setup. We're expecting higher standards from our Simracing influencers.

 

I think (at least I am sure on my side) the criticism here is on the method not the person: one thing is the casual user who may or may not like to develop their setup and another one is the expert providing an opinion which (considering that someone an expert) we hope it is the most educated one.
What I am criticizing is the fact that it is not a plausible opinion that from a person that doesn't know what tires he is running on, whether the car he is driving has ABS or TC or not, whether by any chance the baseline setup he is using is overheating the tires or not, or admittedly he has not spent time setting up his wheel base to Reiza recommendations.
By any common sense his judgment is impaired by the fact that he is unaware od so many basic things and he has not done any homework so whatever the conclusions (positive or negative) they have really no good foundations.
An educated opinion from an expert would be to do his homework and then eventually for instance come back and say he doesn't like the job Reiza has done on the baseline setups because of this or that reason, maybe even conclude that the sim may not be enough casual user friendly or whatever.
But skipping homework is the problem, not his opinion IMHO.

 

If he did he would have to use 'Christine' for sure.

 

Nah nah my good man. Dont criticise our good friend Hunter. Because he invented the (at that time) new gonzo journalism
And eventhough he more than got his part of LSD and mescaline he also made some pretty great articles and books

ByTheWay: But I admit that if he has been living today and joined a MP race I would probably only join as a spectator

 

If you watch myself going around Spa in cockpit cam and then watch Billy it's like two different games, one seems flat and stable and the other bouncing all over the place....
Only difference is the camera settings...

 

Spa isn't very bouncy to begin with. To be fair to Billy, if you want to make a comparison, you should use the same content he did (CLK GT1 @Hockenheim 2001 and Mclaren GT1 @Jerez)

 

Ok so I'm going to do a test on Hockenheim 2001, with the CLK GT1 car, 2 laps straight out the box, default just to see if I get the same problems, as there is no issues at Jerez it's very smooth.
Looks like Hockenheim 2001 was renowned for being very bumpy in real life.
I will post the video with my Camera settings asap, cheers.

 

I would say this is probably the bumpiest track I've come across, but it's definitely a night and day difference.
Settings used....
FOV 80 with buttons assigned to move seat Cockpit Camera/ wheel/hands removed.
High speed shake - OFF
Headmovement - 0
Use Legacy Headmovement - YES
G Force - 0-10 depending on what you like.
Everything obviously can be tweaked to suit yourself, but seems a good place to start.

 

Still quite bouncy though, which may be just like real life, who knows? The only difference is that your head is locked to the car.

 

The forest section has always been very bumpy. Watch the car shaking and Mansell head in 1991.

 

Yeah I think that locking it seems to feel more realistic as obviously in real life you are effectively fixed to the car anyway.
Unless you've got VR this seems the best solution for me, so far and might help some other people struggling, hopefully.

 

What camera settings do you use? This looks good!

 

Look here

 

When your eyes are telling your brain one thing and your body is feeling another it can cause motion sickness.
The tracks may be bumpy in real life, but i think you need to account for us not really feeling any motion but only seeing them in the cockpit view. There is some disconnect between the eyes and the inner ear or something.

I really, really want to love this game, but the way this makes me feel after a couple laps because of this camera/car movement is unpleasant. I mean, I have been driving my desk around since GPL days, and no other racing or rally title has had this affect on me.

 

I'm not sure I agree that locking your head to the car is like real life. Sure it's exactly like how a well fitted camera would behave, but a person is quite flexible and their necks allow sometimes considerable movement, so it is not like locking it to the car. The physics of head movement is a function of many things and is widely different between people (a modern F1 driver's head would be more locked than an F1 driver from the 60s, for example), so I don't know how this could be 'got right'. There's a video of someone in a two-seater F1 type car, and their head was thrown around like a rag doll - it's quite a disturbing video.

I use settings that have a bit of car movement and a bit if head movement, which I find most natural (I use VR, but I'd want a bit of both on a monitor too I think).

 

I really don't think that its that the cars are too bouncy at all. If you look at videos of GT1s racing back in the day or Brazilian stock cars are another good example and compare it to an external replay, the amount of movement is incredibly similar. To me it seems like the issue is that unlike in the real world unless you have a motion rig your head is obviously not in motion with the car so it's much more noticeable, then add to that, that in real life when we're being thrown around like that, our brains are incredibly good at filtering out that kind of motion. Not so much when its happening on a flat screen in front of us.

I think other sims probably tend to dampen the motion of the car relative to the in car camera more that maybe AMS 2 is by default. In some ways dampening it like that is probably more representative of what you perceive in the real car.

 

The Porsche GT1 review is out, 11 laps around Silverstone 2001. Go watch it for yourselves before you comment on it, but here are the bulletpoints, more or less chronologically:

• "Hopefully it's at least fun to drive in terms of AMS2 standards"
• Billy's fans agree with him that AMS2 isn't very good and write to him telling him that
• The Porsche has low front end grip feel.
• Enthusiasm for AMS2 has waned according to his Youtube comment section
• AMS2 shouldn't have been called a v1.0, he doesn't care that it's ongoing development
• If you like the car, you're probably underdriving
• The Porsche is not very good even by AMS2 standards
• Reiza shouldn't listen to the fanboys because we hold them back
• Billy's fans agree with him that AMS2 isn't very good (he actually mentioned it again towards the end)

 

FWIW, I play in VR with Legacy (only option) with a setting of 35. I like that allows a little separation from the car motion, but I am primarily tied to the car. My experience whether on a snowmobile (very rough), or on the track in my car, is that the car (or sled) doesn't feel like it is moving as much as the road/trail ahead. ...almost like your "tied" to your vehicle.

I have zero motion sickness, even if toggling frame rates with ASW in my CV1; with many sessions lasting over 2hrs.

That said, it is quite clear that just about everyone has a different expectation.