Automobilista 2 vs Project Cars 2

Yeah, I heard people don't like comparing those two games,
Ever trough they are based on the same engine, they drive very differently.
I'm not asking which is better here,

I just want to understand, if both games are supposed to be simulators as close to reality as possible, why they drive so differently?
In PC2 it's so much easier to drive, and the cars don't spin around nearly as much as in AM2.

 

It's hard to say without seeing how you drive. One thing you'll find is that in Project Cars 2 a lot of the more powerful cars have an extremely stabilising rear differential setup (very stiff coast). Whether this is part of the same issues we're also dealing with AMS2 or if the setups are just like that, that's the end result.

So one possibility (please correct me) why PC2 is easier for you is that when you drive at the limit and feel some oversteer, it's easy to lift and straighten the car with the help of the setup. The more you lift the more stable the car will become. You can trust it to do that.

Usually in sims it's so that lifting completely will transfer weight to the front tires which helps them grip (if they can take the extra load) and open the rear differential which makes the car rotate more. So, lifting too much and too quickly can easily turn into even more oversteer which is why we're taught to be smooth with the car's inputs. PC2 just doesn't have this in many (most?) cars.

That same stabilising effect is not as strong in AMS2 in my experience so it's not something you can lean on to as much. But it's still there enough that you don't really get the effects of front weight transfer when lifting unless you lift really quickly and/or brake as well.

If you ask me, the goal is to get rid of the inherited stabilising effect phenomenon completely unless you setup your car like that on purpose. Right now it's an unwanted effect of something off in the driveline system.

Some cars in AMS2 have an open differential which will oversteer when you lift. Cars such as MCR2000, Formulas Trainer and Vee, and old Stock Cars. The Formula Trainer is a good tool for becoming smoother with inputs. It's very sensitive. The same might be true of PC2, I just don't remember off the top of my head.

 

I didn't understand, lift what?
Currently I'm using the defaults for each car, not tweaking it.
And by default it feels PC2 cars are much more stable when cornering, turning, braking than AM2 which if you make small mistakes the car will spin.
And if you go to the grass/dirst in AM2 it will spin so hard that you better press "Enter" as you have small chance of getting out of there, vs PC2 which is much more forgiving and you can get out of there into the track with much less spinning/issues.

 

Lift (your foot off the throttle pedal)

 

Ive been a big fan of both and although PC2 is quite forgiving, given my skill set I find it quite hard to catch even my little sports car that sits in the garage once it rotates past a certain point. On the grass and it really does become a massive pendulum. I'd say AMS 2 has the edge in that respect, but it really does depend totally on how we derive our fun. Realistic in a war simulator for example could be problematic from a psychological perspective, and most certainly not that fun. So its totally subjective I'd say. No one right answer to be found?

 

None of these 2 racing games/sims are realistic.
Like any other racing games they are compromises trying to give the user at least some kind of "realist-ish" feeling - when he sits behind his plastic wheel.

pCars2 have chosen a very stable and driver "supporting" compromise - where AMS2/Reiza have chosen a more wild and challenging compromise.

 

I don't have a pedal, I use keyboard

But once I enabled all driver assists options, it drives much better now.
Still not as smooth and easy as PC2, but much better than before.

 

Now that is a crucial bit of info. You let go of the gas and get full engine braking. You have zero modulation.

 

That's another thing, and a good point, that race sims also have to be controllable with a pad or keyboard, so nothing is entirely realistic. All the sims are sort of realistic, but also all have their own style of reality too.

 

Lift off oversteer or snap oversteer.... stiffen the front springs and dampers

 

As close to reality as possible... ... drives with keyboard.

 

If at all possible Maxim, I'd save up and get at least an entry level ffb wheel if your budget allows. My wife brought me a G920 about 3 years ago and its still going strong. Lots of fun and although I look longingly at the more expensive wheels, to be honest they are nice but I honestly dont need one to have lots of fun. The sensation of realism only really comes for me when there's a sense of pressure, and a long race with no saves at a difficulty where one big mistake will probably mean race over, where there is maybe one overtaking opportunity on the lap... well as long as I have a sense of what is happening under me then thats me with gritted teeth, happy and immersed Its totally do-able on a budget.

 

Yikes. You should probably retract your negative comments about the car handling considering you're using a keyboard. AMS2 is a very good simulator and of course cannot be judged properly by someone using an input device like a keyboard, which is binary (on/off) for something which by it's very nature requires an analog input for steering, throttle, brake.

Also, if you're into driving simulators, you really owe it to yourself to at least get a wheel/pedal setup. It's probably not worth playing with a keyboard.

 

driving a sim with a keyboard is the same as playing fallout4 with a wheel and saying it's hard

 

I agree that driving with a wheel is easier than using a keyboard, but these are just computer simulations, and computers are operated by keyboards. I started off using a keyboard back in pre GPL days, and race sims became much easier and more immersive once I bought a wheel, but using the keyboard isn't a million miles away from using a gamepad (especially the old PS2 era ones without analogue axes), so I think it's reasonable for a game to be at least controllable with a keyboard.
It's a long time since I tried it, but I can't imagine using a keyboard without every driving assist going, and maybe this is part of OP's problem, that the driving assist element of AMS2 is less developed thus far. You definitely need some good smoothing and filtering to change that digital input to a more analogue one.

 

I initially tried a keyboard in the early nineties, grabbed a flight-stick and didn't look back. Once I got a wheel and pedals again, no going back for me. FFB wheel, same thing. It's an evolutionary process from my experience, always forward progressing.

 

I used to hate PC2 for the way the cars would just pivot around themselves, like they had been suddenly lifted and spun in slow corners.
Also chucking a car into a corner flat out while dropping 6 gears at once nd then drifting on exit wasnt exactly text book.
But it was designed for pad players, where PC1 was alot better imo.

 

Why not make it simple?
Instead of all the fuss (and money) I have been using a fully handcontrolled SRW-S1 with thr/brake onboard for many years.
No need to sell ones kidney to get a fancy wheel and pedals

ByTheWay: And Im not (allways) the slowest kid on the block

 

I guess that following this line then it would also be a bit misplaced if you installed a keyboard to controll your RL car - and then claimed that the car had a very poor behaviour.