New to AMS 2 - What I think and some advice for the developers

Hi guys,

English is not my native language, so excuse me some mistakes.
Coming from Iracing and RF2, I got the AMS2 and overall I´m loving it.

The weather system of very good, right where it needs to be. The force feedback from what Ive seen is also very good. At this point, I drove mainly the new GTE cars and GT3.

Before the advice I want to reinforce that I really like this sim.

We all know that the competition is strong, so every little details matter, this is especially true when it comes to immersion. That said:

1 - I live in Portugal, and the portuguese track "Cascais" does NOT exist. The correct name is Circuit Estoril (the track is in Estoril, not Cascais").
The Circuit Estoril is very important because was the track where Ayrton Senna won for the first time in his carrer. So, Reiza please change the name from Cascais to Estoril or "Circuit Estoril".

2 - In the end of pratique, please don´t cut when entering the pits. Let the driver enter the pit and only present the stats \ lap times etc when pressing the ESC key. As It is right now is a immersion breaker. A sim, should not cut the immersion from the driver.

3 - There should be more dynamic in the pratique sessions (look into the RF2 for a example). In the pratique sessions, the cars should not quit the pit all of the same time. It shoud quit 2 or 3 at the time.. after 4 minutos.. 1 more car quits... 2 more minutes more 2 or 3 cars and so on. It´s the pratique. Not every team, has the same timings. After they are on the track, they should pit equally dinamic.. maybe pit for 5 minutes.. and then go back to track. (sorry my english).

4 - The cool down lap, is very fast. Normally the cool down laps are more slow with no or almost no overtakings, and again, it should not be cut before the driver pressing the esc key. It would be awesome if after the cool down, all the cars stayed on the pits.

5 - I think more laps need more life. More spectators. and the track limits should be larger. I give you an example: Check the Virginia Track / full circuit. In RF2 for example, when on the pits, the driver can enter on the part behind the pits where are the "tents" with spectators etc. In AMS2, when you turn to go to the tents, there is an invisible wall.


6 - Please put the Liqui Molly advertisement on Bathurst

7 - Digital Flags along the tracks. Almost every big name track uses digital flags these days. A guy witha flag a the beginnings and end of the races, would be also really good,

8 - Overall the font used on the menus is bad. It makes the sim look old. You don´t know how a simple font change can really refresh a UI until you see it. A good designer would make a big difference.

9 - Some UI elements would be better with more opacity. It would be less confusing. And if well applied, it would have a more modern look.

Now the more difficult change:

10 - We need more cars in each category. For example, in GTE we only have 3 cars at the moment. Basically to make it more interesting we are forced to race in multiclass. Also, Aston Martin and Bentley GT3 are missing. I don´t want to talk about Ferrari, because I suppose that´s really hard to obtain and I know this part is a work in progress.

11 - It would be cool to have the more common prototypes. LMP1 and LMP2 more well know to the public. I´m sure a lot of people would pay for a Prototype pack with 5 cars (well know). Congrats for the DPI. Amazing addiction.

12 - Also, we need Le Mans. Le Mans is the mother of Endurance Racing, It´s the track that connects every other track. This should be a priority. Believe me: It´s the reason many people uses other titles instead. Le Mans is that important and it should be perfect. Illumination, digital giant screens, etc etc. Take your time, but make it perfect.

13 - More people on the pits. It´s a little immersion breaking when we enter the pits just to see 1 or 2 persons. It would be cool to have more life overall.

14 - Formation lap to Stand start.

15 - The ability to choose the oponents individually. I don´t want to talk about project cars, but this always was a problem with that title. There is a reason behind choosing individualy oponents. The tracks grids are limited so the cars quantity in each class matters.
Imagine this race:
12 GT3 (we are in a GT3, that´s why they are 12)
6 GTE
6 LMP2
3 LMP1
Right now, this is impossible to do in AMS2.


Thank you very much. Amazing title. It just needs the next step. AMS2 can really stand out.

 

Hi John,

Welcome to AMS2 and Reiza.

You've made some good points with some of those, particularly improving the UI and I've always been a fan of the rF2 practice session feel in general.

Some things you've mentioned will no doubt be on Reiza's to-do list at some point, they've been very good at updating, correcting and tweaking older/original track content as they've gone along and I'm in no doubt this is set to continue.

The biggest issue facing getting those things you'd like to see changed is, in my opinion, money. They're a smaller studio so don't have the budget to go out and secure deals for tracks like Le Mans immediately ( and that's not even taking into account what the new rights holders have planned for licensing that venue,) or getting permission from Liqui Molly. It's partly why they've released so much content in their first year, sales - which will in turn allow the project to continue and flourish further, hopefully bringing about some more 'big name' tracks and cars.

They've always said that it's a long term project and with the last big update they've taken a big step forward. I hope the future is as bright as it can be, the potential is certainly there. Hope you stick with it.

 

Cool write up. We have a list, and now to add to the progression of talk so I am not just going over things again I think for a while now the devs were seeking the moment where they could get their anti 'fillibuster' moment since the community had began to put the game into a pidegon hole from where some didn't want it to leave! lol

The moment to crack that sentiment was probably 1.2, and they did so, its a more cohesive community now, was 50-50, now probably 85-15. I bet there is a lot more time to devote to some of those things. I just drove round brands hatch for a bit recently and it blew me away - in the gt3 porsche I made a thread on it, and people were saying that was a hard to do car. Not these days. loads of fun, so they will tackle various things I reckon.

 

It's not just with Estoril... in AMS2 Red Bull Ring is called "Spielberg" and Suzuka is called "Kansai".

Names like "Circuito do Estoril" and "Red Bull Ring" are probably licensed trademarks and Reiza can't just use those names without actually paying for the license. Considering that Reiza are a very small company they have to choose wisely where they spend their money so I'd rather still have those tracks, even unlicensed and with different names, than not having them at all.

I'm also from Portugal, and I want Reiza to get Autódromo Internacional do Algarve in AMS2, even if they just call it "Portimão"... Reiza, por favor

 

Important question is how it's possible to have real Suzuka with fake name? Is the name too expensive? They paid for the track but not for the name? They didn't pay for the track so the name is not payed either? Estoril could be similar.

 

They're not "fake" names, they're just names of nearby towns or regions instead of the official circuit name. Sometimes this can even be preferred because the official name is some confusing sponsorship thing, like WeatherTech Raceway or Red Bull Ring, which tells you nothing. Spielberg used to be the alternative name of the old Osterreichring, so is more appropriate to cover all layouts.

I trust you are also angry that they call it Imola and not the proper name, Autodromo Internazionale Enzo e Dino Ferrari? Or maybe half the circuits in Brazil should be renamed to Autodromo Nelson Piquet?

 

IMO you can reproduce the layout, but the name and logos are trademarked. Like Reiza did with the Boxter Cup in AMS1. Include sublte differences and don't use the official Porsche name to avoid paying the licence.

Colloquially yes, but officially no. Spielberg is the village where the ring is located. I think you confuse that with Zeltweg nearby, where a F1 race was held in 1963 on the military aerodrome track before the Österreichring was built.

 

Discussing this name thing is a bit odd.
I mean I accept it because I dont think Reiza does it without some kind of reason.
Probably an economic reason - and that is enough for me.
I really dont care what a track is called as long as I can figure out from its layout what counterpart it has in RL

 

Licensing is rather complicated.....and expensive. It doesn't work like a vending machine where you add money and out comes the license. Some car manufacturers are picky who gets a license and who doesn't or they will attach some other requirements to the license. Same goes with race tracks. I doubt that we will see Le Mans in the near future in AMS2. Rumors have it that the License holder for Le Mans sold some exclusive rights to other companies already. iRacing, as example, had to wait years for some of the car licenses. RaceRoom is missing some car manufacturers as well and it is safe to say that Licensing plays a roll there. I remember some time ago a discussion here in the Forum about advertisements around race tracks and Renato explained why Reiza is using some fake names instead of the actual brand names. In the end, money rules the world.....

 

Why odd? I want to know more about licensing. If SMS is not able to have Suzuka but Reiza is, what's the catch? What I heard Suzuka is very expensive. It's just if you care more about games you play.

I came from Forza world where every game has hundreds of cars and I know how hard it is to secure them and what crazy requirements are needed. Then some fans ask why there is no damage in game It's many many things you can't do with the cars then. And even if 90 % cars allow something you need to have game design for 100 %.

 

SMS were trying to get the rights to Suzuka and were close but failed to secure it before the game's launch. Instead of opting to add it later (either free or paid DLC) they just decided to abandon the rights purchase and made enough changes before the launch so as to not trigger a copyright infringement.

 

@Shriukan And Reiza got everything but name?

 

Reiza isn't, that's why it's not called Suzuka, but Kansai. From what I know, Suzuka is one of the most expensive track licences. Another example is Monaco, which is in Project Cars 2 & AMS2 as 'Azure Circuit' (i think) and in rFactor 2 as 'Circuit d'Azur' none of those are officially licenced.

In simple terms. Track and car brand owners don't allow you to reproduce their names, logos and sometimes exact shapes - depending on what they can claim copyright on. Basically they don't want you to make money on their brand recognition. If you use one of their trademarks without them agreeing = licencing it to you, you get in trouble. If you change everything just enough and don't use any real names or logos, you basically fly under the radar. I'm sure it's quite a bit more complicated, but that's the gist of it.

So basically with Estoril/Cascavel and the other tracks you can choose: Have the track under another name, or don't have it at all.

 

I don't know why the track is accurate but lacking the name. As was said above, licensing is a complicated affair, shockfull of legalese. Only Reiza can answer on that.

 

If licensing content were easy, every developer would do it but, it's not. In some cases, it just comes down to money and paying too much makes it unfeasible for the studio. In other cases, there may be existing exclusivity agreements or other limitations that could have negative impact on game design or features.

In games that are established and produce very large revenues, licensing is less likely to be much of an obstacle with money as well as getting a sit-down with the company / organization. There are articles by developers that explain how and why it is so challenging.

 

I would not mind to run a few laps on a potential "Pays de la Loire" track in AMS2 in the future if you catch my drift

Assetto Corsa is a good example. There are quite a few boring SUVs in AC, from Porsche and Maserati. Part of the licencing agreements from those marques for the cars Marco wanted in game was to also include the cars those marques were currently selling on the domestic market, as to have a bit of an advertising effect. So in order to get the Porsche 917K, you had to live with the Panamera. To get the Maserati 250f, you had to live with the Levanto. That was also why those cars were free additions.

 

As far as I am aware every Sim developer does do it. I can't think of one that doesn't have licenced circuits. Not all circuits but some are.

 

So basically Reiza, ISI/S397 and SMS.

 

But Monaco is built on public roads so it's probably different scenario. You can't use Monaco as a name, but you can use public roads. Perhaps.

 

You are answering your own question.
Because its both odd and a bit silly to demand that Reizas tracks allways should be able to be named exactly like the real counterparts of the tracks - because licensing of tracks does cost a lot of money.
And everybody able to reason a bit know that these money can only come from one source - the same source that pays for development of the game.

ByTheWay: Its the same kind of discussion that pops up when people does say that they will only use a game which use laserscanned tracks. My own position is that I dont care at all - if just the track looks and feels convincing.