AI Aggression - placebo setting at best

I hate the Tin top AI. I can't understand why I find it complete crap whilst other people are wetting their knickers over it. It incessantly runs me off track or races me whilst blatantly off track, and gains some sudden turbo boost as you over take them into corners they were slow at previously as they race you on the outside, off the racing line and sometimes even completely off the track with no speed reduction what so ever.. on the contrary.. they seem to get some miraculous speed boost as a result where by they are now faster than you on the complete outside of you.. and yes... this is 1.2.0.8

You think you have easily won the corner.. oh, no you didn't.. They corner at the same speeds no matter what line they take. They have this miracle grip factor that means they are not effected by not being on the racing line or even not being on the track. If I even think about putting 2 wheels off the track.. spin spin spin.

I believe the AI Aggression setting does absolutely NOTHING in this game. Nada, niente. zippo. I turned it to 0 and they still ram me and each other, race off the track, never give up a corner. I hate the AI in this game.

I gave up ever over taking into corners much like I have given up racing when headlights are on. This plainly will never improve.

EDIT: Finally had a "fairly decent" race with the GTE AI @ Kansai. Started mid pack and I waited for a few laps before trying any over takes. They still love to bump and grind but at least its not in pairs or triplets if you let the pack spread out a bit.

I got taken out by the leading AI as I was trying to overtake for the lead, but I take full blame this time around

There is so much I really love about this game which is why the AI frustrates me so much. It looks glorious in VR (full settings) with sun setting (as late as possible without ending up with headlights on AI cars to kill the performance).

I find the GTE cars to be an absolute Joy to race as well as the Merc GT3. Love the caterhams too.. Just wish the AI would get less aggressive and unrealistic in thier driving approach and they would do some optimising on headlight shadows or at least offer up some options to tweak.

 

I feel your pain. Tried AI aggression on anywhere between 5% and 100%. Not a single race the AI doesn't do something annoying, even to each other. Or on some tracks it's like, "I know the AI fly through this turn so I'll back right off, then there's the next turn where they go super slow I'll just automatically gain a position for free". It's hard to imagine Reiza aren't going to genuinely/significantly improve AI, just don't know where it is on their priority list.

In the meantime I've personally been thinking of going back to ACC... maybe, I started out there and almost never had issues with AI. I've grown to like AMS2 quite a lot, but AI is a high priority for my enjoyment.

 

Yep, frustrates me more and more each race, coupled with the seemingly equal talent groups which mean 4 or 5 cars constantly overtaking and reovertaking each other all lap whilst blocking the track for us to attempt any overtakes.

 

Yeah those distinct groups do look a bit unpolished. I suppose if each driver had their own unique pace then they would just spread out along the circuit and the finishing order would constantly reflect that. Ideally a solution that provides a set of abilities that results in mixing would be good, or variance in their pace ability through the race so that sometimes driver A is 'on it' then drops off a bit, then driver B, driver C and so on.. I don't really know but predictability and lack of variation are the destroyers of sustained interest. Maybe driver A excels at braking, driver B excels at overtaking but is a bit slower than optimal, driver C rags their machinery and suffers more as the race goes on etc etc
The occasional poor start by one or two, retirement, puncture- especially after contact (that would be good payback for contact) would all be added dimensions. Punctures would be rather nice to have but I know thats a conversation that is of its own place.

 

ACC, AMS1, rfactors and all previous isimotor games have had perfectly believable AI performance behaviour, just as described above. Surely I don't need to spill the immortal words....Madness engine limitation?

I do remember PC2 seemed to suffer from the same annoying trait. May have to boot it up again and compare.

 

To be fair, the AI have progressed from completely undriveable to merely frustrating now. All jokes aside it's obviously an enormous undertaking and kudos to Renato for getting them to the stage where I can actually stomach racing them instead of just hotlapping. I'd say the main problems are (to reiterate this thread and other threads and and my own observations):

• AI unaffected by driving line or grass/kerbs - can maintain impossible side by side formation for laps at a time
• AI consistently cutting corners (without penalty)
• AI executing huge implausible swerves to get onto their preferred line
• AI swerving away from player, unless they're on the grass in which case rejoining the track has priority even if that means taking the player out
• AI always coming out best in any player/AI collisions
• AI making zero unforced errors, regardless of aggression

 

That's a pretty good summary tpw. If they nailed those then it would be an amazing thing!
Off topic- I'm sure I've asked you this before (but maybe not).. are you the same tpw that put together the superb arma 3 mod by the same name? If so great work there!

 

I hope this post gets acknowledged by the devs. Summarises it perfectly alongside the ai in wet sometimes pitting 2-3 times within a few minutes because they cannot make there mind up on which tyre set to use.

 

Great to hear and yes, as the thought had crossed my mind it certainly does. I think I might have opined such a concern elsewhere so a timely response to stumble across

 

Completely agree with both of you. AI is getting better, altough at slow pace, but better than six month ago for sure.

Racing the AI is really frustrating a lot of times. That "turbo mode" setting made you always have a 100 % defensive attitude the whole race, even if you beat the AI at qualy for a good margin. As they don't make mistakes, and sustain the same pace for the whole race, the player has to be 100% consistent to race them for a long race and always defending against a close pack of three to four "angry" AI cars.

That can be manegeable if at least the AI racing line speed were more realistic. As it is now, there is no point to race the AI to took their inside, AI always will carry the same speed on any corner regardless the racing line they take, even with two wheels on the grass.

Suddenly AI is much faster when behind the player in corners where they were a lot slower when in front of the player, so you go from having to stomp the brakes to not ram the AI, to be overtaken on the outside (and even on the grass), or usually punted, by the same AI when he's behind you a lap later on the same corner.

About aggresion levels, I noticed the AI switches racing lines (defending and/or attacking) if you set that level at 95% or more. It's really good and interesting, but the problems described here take out a lot of the enjoyment.

I really hope Reiza can manage these AI shortcomings in the near future.

 

I've heard it's best to put the AI Aggression between 80% to 100%. Put it too low and it acts a bit stupid. It feels right to me so might be worth trying if you have it set very low.

 

Guilty as charged!

 

I can't put any science behind what this setting means, but I have aggression set to 85% and the AI is most definitely raceable. I have a much different experience to OP.

While you can notice at times that it has different physics, and there's some moments where it acts odd or inconsistent/un-human like, I can race door to door with them, confident there will be no contact, and can even force them to run wide and off track at corner exit (also with no contact).

I try to learn how it behaves, understand it's quirks and drive accordingly, but that's the same with actual humans.

I'm also seeing less 'grouping' on the current build than previous. Anyone else notice this?

Edit - I agree with these tips on racing with the AI:

 

I was using 85% most of the time. After being completely frustrated, I then tried all sorts of settings from 0-100 and the results were IDENTICAL. Not a single thing changed. Hence my conclusion.

 

AI isnt too bad for tin tops but try it for open wheelers - it just drives like its in a stock car which is frustrating. AI drives on grass like its new tarmac without penalty and is not aware at all when you are alongside (or is aware and doesnt care). It is getting better but its also really frustrating as AMS2 is great and my prime sim but makes offline racing hard sometimes.

 

Imo the biggest "problem" (if you want to label it that way) I have with the AI is their predictability. You know where they’re slow and it is always the same spots. There is no variety or no surprises. Well, they’re bots after all. However I wish there'd be some kind of unpredictability among them in the future, I think this is what is still missing in all AIs in all racing sims

 

Thanks for starting the thread. Good to know I'm not the only one who usually leaves this game frustrated due to being wrecked by the AI in strange ways.

My suggestion for Reiza would be just to remove the "aggression" slider for now and focus on getting the AI working well with one default setting. In my view, Raceroom has the best AI implementation and they don't even have separate skill and aggression sliders. They simply set it up to produce good and believable racing at whichever speed level you select.

 

I think that it is just not that simple to program an AI so it behaves like a human. We are very very very complex creatures and that isn’t easy to mimic. Sounds easy, turn a knob and it will change its behaviour but that isn’t the case. The AI is by far good ATM, does behave stupid from time to time. Especially with the first corner at the start of a race. That said, my guess is that we humans do make stupid mistakes racing against AI as well and more than we would when we race against humans.
It is easier to say, I don’t care that I throw my car in that to small gap and ram off the AI than when you say this to a human. At least that is my guess. You probably drive more careful against humans.

anyway, the AI of R3E is far more evolved compared to AMS2 and we can only hope that we will have an AI like RE3 one day.
Happy racing and be gentle with the AI, one day they may turn against us and you would have wished you had been more forgiving to them.