Physic discussion thread

I don't know if it's just down to my technique or not but compared to other sims the brakes seem extremely prone to overheating, especially on the Formula Retro G1. I have to have my brake sensitivity very low and even with that low sensitivity I have to feather the brakes just to make sure they don't start overheating. I'm not sure quite why this is, but I guess at least on the bright side it's taught me about brake conservation

 

Did you maybe use a setup from the time trial leadership board?
If so, check if the brake ducts are all the way closed.
My experience is that I can close them quite a lot before the brakes start to overheat

 

Lowering brake pressure does not help with temperatures. You need to open the front brake ducts fully (100%). These cars have quite small front rims and I guess the brake discs are somewhat small as a result.

 

Are you sure you mean brake "sensitivity" and not brake pressure?
Because brake sensitivity is just a misspelling of brake pedal "law" - where only 50% is linear and 50+ is more and more "hyperbolean" where the start stroke have high sensi and more stroke have lower sensi/impact on the brake effect.

 

Well I only have experience driving mainly the Lotus 72E. IIRC the real car had inboard brakes as did the Mclaren M23's rear brakes which I guess were cooled by ducting/openings in the bodywork. So I don't know if that has a bearing on the brake performance or cooling but after approx. 2/3 laps around Adelaide they are constantly overheated even with ducts at 100%. I don't know if adjusting the ducts even make much of a difference to the cooling. The same issue with the 620R Caterham which has no brake ducts to adjust.

Tried various settings and gave up and just accepted it as something to put up with.

 

Thanks.
Could you in your own time ie sit in pro car and or c9 on track or in pit and slowly increase rpm from idle (neutral gear) and have nice progression or does it jump rpm to ie 4k or so? c9
Edit
If you set to default 50 what happens? how do trickiest of cars feel at default 50 in comparison.
Pls mention cars used.
Sry for all the Qs
ref vid

@CrimsonEminence hi Crimson, yes Im also/was happy with 50, kindof used to it. however lowered it gives me more fine balance on the limit of grip in wet/dry corners etc because 'jump in outup is progressive feathering throttle
I think some cars have received a lot of flack like c9 etc and this jump will have contributed as most probably have run default 50. with it suddenes

 

Just tried the c9 and pro car, both pretty wacky in same way. and the c9 is reving up even before throttle telemetry registered on graph, maybe that’s why I hate that thing.
Doesn’t make much difference what sensitivity settings

 

Thanks still not sure how all this forum stuff works tagg etc

Ok thanks.
From my perspective its simply that at default 50 (and we know some defaults have improved)
gradual throttle increase should allow any rpm to be selected in any car. this is not possible it seems atm. but is possible with lower ie 20 approx.
So devs should/could reset 50 to be absolutely progressive as RL
. If then he/she/me wanted a more snappy fast throttle I just increase to say 70. (probably the current 50 equivalent . unknown)
This default 50 and its hole has potentially caused much bad feedback and driving impressions as well as effecting the entire transmission line with respect to on off throttle response.
really have to work now. Thanks for respsonses

 

Thanks a lot for these last few posts, the formula vintage cars have always been a bit of a difficult one for me (to the point where i drive vintage in RF2 only) for me because of this problem, go around a corner, breathe on the throttle and it's spin-city.. Didnt occur to me to check that throttle response, i was idling at three and no control between 3 and 5.5krpm, just instant on, after adjusting it down to 20% response I can now get out of corners still facing forward .

On my bike, my throttle maps essentially change 100% throttle position from 1/3rd twist, half twist, full twist, but, in all maps I can make minute movements that still allow me to adjust rpm very finely, still linear ramp but over less rotation limit, with this "fix" the car can still get to max rpm, just a slower ramp, which cannot be linear? so is this a general game bug, only certain cars bug? Fanatec bug? Making me want to go check my "problem" cars in other games as well now

(dd1 and v3 pedals fwiw)

 

Niels has often complained about the throttle response in many sims being wrong (too much throttle required to maintain constant rpms) and mentioned how they worked with Renato to get it right in AMS1. I assume the peaky throttle curves from AMS1 are also replicated in AMS2:

In any case, pedal linearity adjustments are perfectly fine to make the cars easier to control under throttle and braking.

 

Thanks for trying and feedback glad it help, hope others will try and devs will look at default '50'
progressiveness or not as the case seems to be.
Any tube vid with a/any 'car' warmup like below the driver/mechanic in this case has full 1:1 control of rpm/and ((bhp output therefore)), just like our right foot & should have here (at default imo not 20 or less)
. at 1.15mins he briefly allows idle when he thinks its warmed enough, nonetheless he has full control and can hold at any rpm he wishes as does the driver when driving.
50 setting will not allow this at present in all cars tested this end. inc gt3, gt1 gte, old mini class lotus 23? retro, C9 etc.
Its not so much making the cars 'easier' but making the default setting accurate (realistic) to real world vehicles irrespective of class. the cars have been made 'harder' @ 50 default from the start. or changed along the way inadvertently or not
For those that never considered this setting adjustment in game, myself included its a nice supprise to find some 'quirks' have diminished/disappeared and making a car dance with power oversteer or catching a slide, feeling a more natural engine break effect etc. Just makes the Sim shine more than before. Personally I like and have grown used to the 50, wrongly thinking that the car throttle responses were 'normal' never considered changing this 'off and jumpy' setting.

1;1 progression should be default Edit: In other words when I adjust throttle I should be able to modulate from idle to any rmp I choose 1200 1400 3000 etc

 

As per your suggestion, I've tried in the Pro Car and C9, also the Formula Vintage Gen 1.
I can sit in neutral and hold revs wherever I need using the default of 50.
Being in neutral it will be extremely sensitive and I think in your video of the guy warming up the engine you'll find he's only using a fraction of the throttle range.
For me, I would say that is entirely correct and exactly how it should be. It doesn't take much power to get the engine to rev in neutral, and so will only require a small throttle opening to achieve it.

 

I agree with what is being said regarding non-linear response in real life and also the fact that throttle sensitivity is there for you to adjust. AMS2 really does it nicely with the feeling of torque with just some throttle opening in lower revs. This is a crucial element to how cars drive in slow corners and might confuse sim hoppers. Just something you have to get used to. Once revs climb, the throttle will actually start throttling and you won't move that much without opening it some more.

But I also happen to think that if the first 2000 revs and for example 100Nm of torque beyond idle RPM are very finicky then perhaps the curve could be adjusted "globally" so there is a bit more granularity in that first few % of throttle input. If this was the default 50 then people could adjust it from there. Just like someone suggested earlier.

However I understand that it's a complicated topic. So I'm not saying "just do this", simply giving my +1 that there might be some room for improvement in the base throttle input curve (NOT the throttle maps themselves necessarily).

 

Yes, by 1 : 1
general.
I specifically mean I or anybody and my throttle movement be it pulling a throttle cable, pushing a pedal or butterfly as in vid means I can control the revs with progression and not have it suddenly jump from 3000 rpm to 6ooo rpm as is the case with some/most cars default.
This is the crux of the issue.
its effect is stationary and importantly whilst driving
Easy to test in game as some have and in real life if one has a vehicle outside you will be able to adjust rpm to whatever you wish, naturally. if it jumped 3k rpm from you holding 1000rpm and slowly increasing you'd take it back to garage.

 

not sure what is "right" or "wrong", I was not even born when these cars were on the road, but i can say that the "fix" makes these cars in AMS2 now finally driveable and on par with this class of car in all my other games. interestingly the same car in AMS1 which default sto 100% throttle does not do this either. irrespective, I am glad this fixes it, i can finally enjoy these cars in AMS2.

AMS2, I have little to no control at all between 3krpm and ~5.5krpm. it just jumps, throttle response to 18% and it "behaves" like other games.

AMS1 same car, standard setup.
(interesting sidenote that the idle was at 2K in AMS1 and its at nearly 3K in AMS2?)

RF2 (not same car but you get the idea)

AC

and the joker prize, R3E, not relevant at all because its a completely different class of car as r3e does not have the classics. I added it because you can see my throttle input vs response, I didnt think to turn those on in the other videos sadly. but im sure we get the idea. In all the clips except AMS2 on default settings I was able to easily control low rev range from idle, none of them did that sudden jump.

 

Have fun
Thank you for taking the time to test and also vid evidence hope fully this will encourage more to test/try/report back
Q what pedals do you have?

I reported/asked about this and showed real car video of idle. Back in 2020 as it would of course effect transmission line/engine braking etc
Edit I would make your 18 setting video public to help the many others that are not in forum to read any relevant posts. This may also encourage others to enjoy more car class's they may have been put off driving.

 

Is the fix to decrease the sensitivity? And do you have videos of how the cars behave with and without decreasing the sensitivity, and I mean when you are driving and how they behave in corners and such and slow speed? I am curious if you can see the difference.

 

Logically this would also explain the constant understeer tendency in a lot of cars, since the differential will never switch to coast when there is the slightes throttle pressure. irregular high preloads would be needed for coast. THis would also explain why the rsr74 swings around in slow corners... the diff is always on power ramp, since there is no low torque condition.