Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

I forgot to mention another thing I found by running this custom championship, I'm sorry :-(

As I try to simulate a real F1 championship, I set the races to be full lenght, same laps amount as the real F1 2019 calendar where the tracks match.

So far, the only track which you can do with a full tank, according to the setup prediction, was Monaco.

As per regulation I disabled refuel on pits, and the apparent lack of fuel management AI have, all the AIs are unable to finish the race, they retire when out of fuel, while the player can finish by doing some basic fuel savings during the race, being slower in the proccess of course.

I don't know if that's a problem with the fuel tank size, fuel consumption, or something else. It's not a big deal because you can adjust the race lenght percentage before entering the race, but I thought it's worth mentioning it.

Again, thanks for reading!!

 

Again, I agree and have experienced everything @Fernando mentions in his posts.

As I said before, the AI issues are more proeminent on proper long races, which is very frustrating and leaves the feeling of pointless time spent on the sim.

I assume most people only do too short races (usually < 30mins, depending on the chosen class ofc), so some shortcomings of the AI get masked/hidden.

 

As a general comment, race strategy is one place where some sim out there could really make a leap and become an AI leader. I also spend a lot of time playing another sim out there that has a wide variety of content and is generally considered to have great AI, but the pit strategies that they use can be comically bad.

The kind of stuff doesn't really involve making the AI "smart"--it's just giving the AI engine access to information that otherwise exists in the game--how long a tank of fuel lasts, how long a particular tire compound lasts and the delta between softer and harder tires and the like.

(Note: I am calling myself out now for engaging in the "it would be easy for somebody to do this, especially because it's not me" routine ).

 

Glad you had a bit of fun and could see some differences! But I did not suggest 100% aggression--90% or even 80% will do versus the very low number you were using initially. As you discovered, when you push the setting right to the limit there is a higher chance of unintended consequences (the pile-ups). At 80% or 90% hopefully we get the better awareness, but not so aggressive as to cause the collisions.

 

My experience is similar. I have yet to play a sim that had the AI manage to do any kind of proper pit strategy for longer races. Even in the celebrated GTR2, I remember AI cars stubbornly refusing to pit and then plodding along at 80% pace because their tyres were shot.

I understand it might not be trivial especially when the AI are on different physics with different tyre wear effects, but at least they shouldn't do totally brain dead things that make the race completely meaningless. Stuff like "run a full tank so you don't run out of fuel" or "don't pit three times in a row because the weather goes from wet to slightly wet to really wet".

 

While I agree on the side by side issue, I wouldn't say the AI is utterly unsuited for open-wheelers. In my experience it depends on the class and the track.

I pretty much stick with the Retro G1s, and I think they are pretty well-behaved on the classic '70s tracks. The V-Vintage G1/G2 on the other hand are simply terrible, bordering on useless for anything but free practice. On any track. I haven't tried other classes for months.

However, I do agree with your main point that the AI needs to be calibrated for each class. I'm not too optimistic that the devs can make it work with every possible combination of cars and tracks though. That would take years of testing and tweaking, but as consumers we can expect that the cars of a certain era can at least race somewhat gracefully on the tracks of the same period.

 

• Car / Track used: BMW 2002 Turbo, AI using both the Chevy and the BMW, at nurburg nordschleife
• AI Strength setting: 105
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): T1, after the pit exit
• AI Aggression setting: 80%
• Session Distance: Custom race, set up with a long practice session, as a means of practice with traffic
• Weather when the issue was observed: Most Dry

Today I was trying the new BMW 2002 at the nordschleife. I like having cars around, so I set up a custom race with a long practice session and added 19 other cars (AI).
When the Chevy's leave the pit, they stay too far on the right and consequently run of the track at T1. Sometimes they even spin when trying to get back on track.

 

I honestly don't think this is real "Driver Personalities", it is just a 2 or 3% variation in aggression and AI level. Sure, you can call it personality but to me that would mean much more like some drivers being real good at tire management or managing fuel, one being a god in qualifying and one being very strong in race conditions, one being great at defending and another very good at overtaking himself.

That is probably a little too much to expect, but that is what I would call real personalities. Otherwise its just variation to me.

 

• Car / Track used: Donington Park, BMW 2002 Turbo (AI using BMW 2002 or Corvette from same class)
• AI Strength setting: 105
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): T4 (Old Hairpin) and T7 (McLean)
• AI Aggression setting: 60
• Session Distance: FP=6-min, Q=10min, R=20min
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): FP, Q and Race

The AI is awfully slow at the corner exit in these 2 spots, as the performance in the rest of track seems ok.

 

Version 1.2.4.4
Formula Classic Gen 2
Monza 1991

Turn 1: AI still goes crazy, causing a lot of incidents, because they try to go side by side there. Car on the outside does not let overtake car slightly in front on the inside and forces it's way through.

2nd Chicane (della Roggia): They do the same as in T1. When human player overtakes before corner, AI does not step back, but just cuts corner by jumping over the curbs and might ram player on the exit.

In general, when watching replays, I see that AI has no sense for clean overtaking. They come closer to opponent out of slipstream, but then, instead of overtaking, they tend to go for the rear tyres of car in front and ram or just go side by side again quite a while.

 

Yes, you might be right. Just wanted to state that in championship mode, there are some guys who are better than the rest of the AI and are always in front of the grid/pack during the season. In race weekends, it is all just coincidence.

 

I was trying to do a back to back comparison between AMS2 F-Ultimate and AC RSS Formula Hybrid 2018, but I consistently ran into the following bug:

• F-Ultimate
• Kyalami
• Race 25 laps
• Clear weather
• AI 95/50
• Issue: AI stalls at race starts and forever stays there. AI has extremely slow race start.

I also had the AI brake check me at the start/finish line during qualifying.

Something weird I found out was that the AI can make up the huge time lost due to the above mentioned bug. In some of the runs I tried, I opened a gap of something like 3s and well before the end of the first lap I had the AI all over me.

Is the F-Ultimate in AMS2 based off on the 2019 F1 spec? Apparently the AMS2 version is about 2s faster than AC Formula Hybrid 2018.
Also, is the F-Ultimate auto deploying energy in the most optimized strategy? Unlike the AC car that allows us to manage the energy as we wish, in AMS2 we have no control over it, right?
Finally, the AMS2 car feels much easier to drive than the AC one, both are really fun - a little bit annoying that we are still missing tyre compounds in AMS2, though.

 

Yeah, thx, fixed.

 

Race Weekend/ 15 laps race
Cars: F3
Track: Montreal GP/Dry
Strength:100/50

Overall, a horrible experience.

1. AI are faster in race than in qualifying
2. They can take turn1, the sharp lefthander, way too fast. So, although I was far in front on the finish straigth, I got them on my back again in turn 2 all over sudden out of nowhere.
3. When player is in front of them, they start doing crazy manoeuvres, sticking their nose in everywhere, jumping over the sausage curbs (without losing control or getting penalties), cut corners and go for rear tyres of player.
4. Although they miss the entry often, they can go out of corners full speed without having troubles with traction.

Started from pole and for several laps, I had cars on position 2-4 on my back doing crazy things all the time. Then, I saw them in my mirrors having a huge crash in the hairpin, because they all tried to pass the curve side by side and none of them stepped back.
Damage was turned on (100%), but nobody pitted and they went on doing their average laptimes until the end of the race.

 

Please finally invent Blue Flags for the AI. It is completely ridiculous how they block or chase you on their in- or outlap.
AI also leaves pit for an outlap after session is already over or just a few seconds of time left.

 

"Improved AI blue flag behaviour" was included in V1.2.4.1 though I must say, I haven't noticed much of a difference.

I would like to see the AI be more generally benign in practice sessions. It doesn't feel right to have to fight tooth and nail to get passed someone in practice.

 

Yep, and I want to add, they need to back off and get aside on the straights, not braking in the middle of the turn blocking the racing line, in the race.

 

In multi class I definitely noticed that the faster classes were able to better pick there way through the slower cars in the field although they still lost a lot of time in comparison to me. Overall the experience was improved.

On a slightly related note GT4 + JCW is a great multicass combo. I was trying to replicate the IMSA GT4+TCR series (which has some fantastic racing) and this combo comes very close in terms of both power differences and racing. Well worth a spin at somewhere like Laguna Seca.

 

• Car / Track used: FORMULA ULTIMATE
• AI Strength setting: 97
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): Pitlane
• AI Aggression setting: 90
• Type of session Practice, Quali, Race

Ai still crashes in to the pitwall on pit entry.