Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Hello Reiza.
Let me start off by saying amazing job on the latest update. The game is performing well in VR and feels great.

It's been a couple of months since i last been able to play in general and i had the chance to jump back in just in time for your latest update. What I'm about to share is more of a cry for help then a suggestion I am hoping you will consider implementing. I am literally scared to continuing to play this title at the moment.

I have a Fanatec DD2 base when i seriously almost hurt myself multiple times today trying out the game. When there are crashes (whether it be cars bumping, sliding into the wall or hard hitting head on crashes, the FFB spikes at the wheel are dangerous for those with strong FFB wheels. I'm not new to this wheel base. I know to let go of the wheel when a crash is non-avoidable but what i cannot predict is last minute wall slaps or getting hit by other cars which result in the same FFB Spike causing serious risk and harm. My FFB is setup with i want to say firm force but not to the apoint where i have the gain setup seriously high. If i lower it much lower I start to lose important detail at the wheel.

So with this I ask, similar to how other titles handle this (ACC being a great example) can we have crashes that cause FFB spikes either turned down, or a dedicated slider that controls what is felt through the FFB? This is not about realism, but rather safety feature and controlling strong spikes for those with higher end wheel bases.

If there is a setting i can play with or a custom profile to adjust this setting, I'm all for testing and helping provide feedback. Here are my settings:
In-game
Profile: Default+
Gain: 70
LFB: 10
FX: 20
Damping: 25
in-game vehicles: Range between 50-70%

Fanalab settings:
FFB: 60
FFS: Linear
NDP: 15
NFR: 02
NIN: OFF
INT: 03
FEI: 90
FOR: 100
SPR: 100
DPR: 100

 

Game developers don't necessarily have access to all the hardware used with games. They may not be aware or able to test for certain issues. There are a couple of ways you can reduce your risk of injury with DD-wheels.

As a general rule, it's safer to set the wheel force (Hardware setting) strength at a safe level, not at maximum output. While this does increase the chance of encountering game-ffb (if at 100%) signal-clipping, clipping can also be a safety tool to avoid such extreme forces.

With reduced power output at the wheel, determine where the game-ffb output (using a ffb-meter app) clips and adjust to allow those extreme forces to be curtailed. Don't forget to test with high downforce cars, too.

Once done, gradually increase the wheel-driver strength (Hardware Power output) to achieve the desired force at the steering wheel. Now you should have some margin of safety.

At the end of the day, it's our personal responsibility to ensure our own safety through safe practices, especially when using powerful hardware.

With that said, there may be some adjustments the developer can make in regard to contact force levels, so your report may be quite valid.

 

That's something you have to tone down using the Fanatec software, not the fault of developers. I wouldn't want to change anything in FFB and I have DD1. I never got injured by the wheel. If you got into an accident, you can set up a pause button to pause the game and restart lol. That's what I did lol.

 

Not sure I follow what you mean ...
As for being on DD1 and being happy, are you saying when you crash and/or bump into objects you get no jolts in the wheel? Can you please test and confirm? If this is the case, mind sharing your settings with me?

I'm hoping this is not a game issue and more of a settings issue, but from what I've researched I'm not alone and this is not the first time people bring up this topic on this title. I'd be thrilled if I can continue to get the level of FFB detail I get currently while toning done the spikes when a crash happens. Outside of the jolts I can easily drive around the track with two fingers on the wheel...which means if i turn down the overall gain my wheel gets extremely light and i lose a lot of the detail which is not an option but obviously safer...

 

Repost from another thread to where it’s more fitting and less likely to be lost .

I think the term Damper or how it’s described as dampening is misleading to many.
I think there’s a misconception that it’s function is just to smooth or reduce forces.

but it needs to be thought of like a suspension damper. ( Shock absorber)

you need some strength in a suspension damper to add resistance to movement, but also strength to the motion of the spring.

so when applied to our ffb , adding damper will add to the weight needed to compress or move the wheel, but also will add resistance to the forces acting against the wheel.

so just like a suspension on a car, too much damper strength will make it less likely travel up and down over bumps, which gives the impressions of less details in ffb because it’s not using full movement., but if you have it too soft it will not have resistance to slow movement and will feel very weak or easy to compress. ( For the ffb , This translates to very light wheel that can quickly travel to far and fast , like a big oversteer swing)

so there’s a balance to be found in the middle.
You need the damper to add weight and resistance to the ffb, and you then need to increase the strength of the details through Fx and Lfb to so that they are strong enough to compress the Useful damper.

you wouldn’t run your car suspension without a damper as it would be all over the place and you would have poor control,
the same can be said for your FFB . youre wheel is a spring, but it needs a control mechanism.

 

Cheers Kuku, I've never been 100% on what Damping does - I did indeed always assume it was more based around compression or smoothing of the signal.

Just on another point about how the 'perfect/correct' settings vary from person to person, obviously there's a personal taste thing some people prefer heavier or more details some people prefer smoother. Then you have how different FFB feels per car too, so someone may be giving their settings based on a type of car that has stronger/weaker FFB built in that you. But past that, one thing I've noticed is even with same settings and same car, the actual rim you are using makes quite a sizeable difference. I have a Cube F1 style rim, 280mm diameter, very solid with firm rubber grips and that transmits a lot of fine, higher frequency details, but then I change to a round GT style Sparco leather 330mm wheel, everything feels a lot more dampened down. So the grip material, diameter, whether you wear gloves, how chunky your fingers are , it all changes how everything feels.

Think that makes it even more important that the FFB settings are clear and a definitive helpful set up guide is provided so people can know what they are actually changing and how to change it to make it suit their own set up.

 

Different games all seem to apply damper in a different way, but since this update this is how it feels like it behaving to me .

I totally agree about wheel rims being a big factor. I’m running a Tm 28GT on a simagic base, which is far smaller and lighter than the stock Simagic wheel, so that seems to translate to running lower gain and fx than others.
I noticed quite a difference when originally swapping the 28GT leather for the much heavier stock rim when I was running a t300.

 

Already past more than an half year but still nothing we got.

Are we should wait that for another an half year?

 

Sure you could. Or, just play with one of the now two default choices for FFB and enjoy as the vast majority seem to be able to do. The process for adjusting FFB has been written about here multiple times and won't change one iota when a FFB Guide is released. The Guide will not have a list of magic settings that work perfectly for you and your wheel because that doesn't exist.

You have a common wheel, so pick it in the UI selection so its default settings are present. Take 5 minutes to adjust some sliders one at at time. You can also find many references to settings used by people with the same wheel as you if you want to test what others think are good.

Not trying to be facetious, but I am incredibly happy that Reiza spent the time programming and testing the new Default+ rather than writing a Guide for the old Default. Now we all have two options (higher chance at least one will be good) and many seem to like the "+" version, so even better.

 

I think they meant the FFB crash bug where the wheel yanks hard right until you restart AMS2. Haven't gotten that one myself in months...

 

Well got home early so an opportunity to have a play. Latest (small) update installed and also deleted my custom FFB file from the folder (even though i use Default), then fired the game up. FFB is now more/less back to how it was prior to the major 1.3 update. How weird is that as all i did was delete the custom file (which wasnt being used) and took the small update. Kinda odd as it now feels very different to how it did just after installing 1.3.
Settings i have been running on my TMX are (rightly or wrongly) Gain 55, Boost 40, FX 50, Damping 0, and settings in TM Control panel are 75, 100, 100, 0, 0

 

So i reached out to Fanatec and they confirmed that this is not a hardware or settings issue on the hardware side. I did further testing today and I found that the new Default+ profile is the culprit. If I use the Default profile, the spikes are less violet and controllable whereas the + seems over powered. Switching to Default, however, does make it feel like details are lost or minimized. I would really appreciate if this can be reviewed and toned down or at least a way for us to control this better through some settings.

Thank you.

 

Do you drive on a motion simulator?

 

What are your settings, please? A DD1 is part of the Reiza test set, so I know that the intention is that the game should work well on the Podiums (note also all the Fanatec advertising in the game!). But you have the most powerful one and by definition it will require more care to not get overloaded.

For example, on the Mini JCW, it is overload even on my lower-powered wheel. Be very careful trying that car if you haven't already. But that is 100% a car-specific issue that will get addressed as soon as it makes it to the top of the update queue. So, depending also on which car(s) you are driving, the problem will be more severe.

 

@Marc Collins
See below. I've tested on a couple cars with similar results. Mainly use GT4 BMW for testing but i've used sprint etc. as well.

In-game
Profile: Default+
Gain: 70 (lowered to 60 with similar results but a little safer)
LFB: 10
FX: 20
Damping: 25 (tried at a 100 and made no difference.
in-game vehicles: Range between 50-70%

Fanalab settings:
FFB: 40
FFS: Linear
NDP: 15
NFR: 02
NIN: OFF
INT: 03
FEI: 90
FOR: 100
SPR: 100
DPR: 100

@reptilexcq
Thanks for sharing. My settings are near identical and I've tried messing with them all from one extreme to the next with minimal difference (with the exception of effects which kills all FFB if set too low). I don't use motion but i do use simhub for bass shakers...


For the record I even deleted my entire AMS2 folder in the documents section to reset settings. It did not help... To sum up my testing, I basically jump into azure and a car and purposely tap into the walls at different angles and different speeds. The reason I've been doing this is to try different settings to see what effect they've had, but doing this will result in the sharp FFB spike i am having. For example i can be driving with just my fingers on the wheel and when i hit these walls the force is so strong that even if i grip the rim hard it causes massive force. To be clear i am purposely doing this for testing.

 

With SimuCube systems, Granite Devices advises us to set the wheel force level, so we are able to drive using only one hand on the wheel. I think that is a good guideline to setting overall force strength but, there still may be some extreme cases that are not safe.

 

Not an expert on DD wheels by any means, but the GT4 BMW is one of the cars that has more severe ramp-up forces than (for now at least) any of the other GT4's (or most cars in the game). Try the GT4 Camaro or Ginetta just as a test and see if they feel more "normal."

 

Turn your damper (DPR) in fanalab settings to 0 or off

 

Why is that?