Bouncy cars

I will try again this weekend, it seems like the car itself is not handling the bumps correctly judging from the fact that I see 0 suspension travel on the front axel + wheels in relation to the cockpit so any wheel movement is 1:1 translated to camera movement. The wheels simply do not move in relation to the cockpit when taking sausage kerbs. I also noticed the bottom of the front wheels clip the surface in the Ultimate, maybe that causes some unwanted side effects where the wing collides with the surface?

I can alleviate the issue a bit by decreasing the "world movement", but then the car just bounces excessively instead of the camera and this causes issues with banked surfaces as the car will rotate under you while the camera stays fixed at 0° in relation to the horizon, a very weird sensation.

 

I would agree that the FUltimate default setup doesn't handle bumpy tracks (like Daytona) at all well:

The rear springs are soft and the front springs are very hard, and it bottoms out like crazy, causing excessive bumpiness both visually and in the FFB. The third spring is supposed to couple the front and rear suspension together and to limit the overall ride height variability, while leaving the corner springs/dampers free to be relatively soft and absorb small bumps/kerbs. But that doesn't seem to be how it's currently set up.

The good news is that Steelcast27 fixed the FUltimate setup once, so maybe he will manage to do it again.

In principle I agree, but modern stabilised onboard TV cameras somewhat misrepresent the reality. From the driver's eye, even modern F1 cars present a fairly bumpy ride:

 

That's a good representation of the bounciness I experience. Interlagos and Jerez are similar experiences. The thing is: even with the suspension setup very soft the experience doesn't improve in my experience, leading me to believe there's either an issue with the way the suspension works or with a part of the car colliding with the track's surface (or something else entirely). Doesn't seem normal.

His helmet is under more forces than just the road forces from the suspension of course on top of that camera being zoomed in with a narrow FoV which exaggerates every single bit of motion the helmet makes, I'm sure that image would look bumpy if he were simply walking around the pitlane.

Let me be clear that I don't expect 0 bumps and a smooth ride as if you're floating over the track, I expect some bumps (the RSS and W12 have those too of course), the main thing for me is that the Ultimate in AMS2 is now too bumpy to drive comfortably and I can't get that tuned out to save my life.

Also to be clear: this is in VR, so any bumpiness shown in that video is tenfold in VR as your entire field of view is shaking.

 

I'm seriously thinking of organizing a task force with technically savvy users to seriously dig into this bounciness issue (camera, visuals, suspension settings, lack of neck absortion, etc...) to determine the true root causes. Like a "AMS2 Bounciness Commission" , with organized tasks, repeatable steps, and conclusions.

It seems we have some many theories, and certain cars are worst then others, etc... but it's not an organized effort to narrow the issues down.

 

Running a super stiff car on a bumpy track with very low FoV and camera in legacy mode with head movement 0 as in the video above will certainly do it.

 

To repeat myself from some former comments on this bumpiness issue then I guess most of the complaints is because most virtuel sim drivers has never themselves experienced the bumpiness in RL racing.
Their experience is solely from the overly smoothed out solutions in most/all other socalled racing sims.
My own experience from years back is from driving the small formula car FF1600 and some gokarting.
And I can garantee you that a RL FF1600 does bump even MORE than even the "worst" virtual formula car in AMS2.

My ONLY reservation to this conclusion is that I hear that the bumpiness inside VR in AMS2 is exaggered more than the rather realistic (IMO) bumpiness in AMS2 normal 2D/flat screen display.

 

I actually have a fair share of driving experience in different racing classes, I drove a Formula Renault at Magny Cours a few years ago as part of a driving experience (can recommend, they also have F1 cars) and I did my fair share of karting in my time and own a Donkervoort (sort of a Caterham) that I take to track days at Spa, Zolder and the Nurburgring so I don't want to call myself purely a virtual driver. We all agree that racing cars aren't Citroen DS cars with hydropneumatic suspensions, that's not what this thread is about (for me anyway), what matters to me is that the driving experience as it is now in some cars is hampered by what seems to me to be an unoptimal suspension behavior. Have I ever driven a 2019 F1 car? Of course not, but that shouldn't mean that I can't try and find a way to improve the Formula Ultimate driving experience for everybody, even if it is simply raising the issue and keeping the discussion alive

 

If some exaggered VR bounciness problem in AMS2 shall ever be solved then it is probably a bit contraproductive to confuse some possible issues in different cars setups/damping with an overall camera problem.
A camera problem I and at least some others have commented on is more or less solely displaying itself in VR mode.
If there beside of this is some individual car damping problems then I hope they get solved without smoothing away(destroy) the pretty realistic camera bounciness there is in the AMS2´s 2D display.

 

@BrunoB , it looks like you are proving my point of needing a concentrated group effort.

To avoid creating rumors, perceptions, facts, between the source cause (suspension issues, camera issues, no IRL experience, FOV issues, etc...) I believe we need to start an effort to nail this issue once in for all. I have a motion rig (thus I can tell if the bouncy motion is in the telemetry or just the visuals) and I can tell you it's in the telemetry as well. I have driven numerous supercars around tracks and I can tell you, there are some cars in AMS2 that are "extra" bouncy, on top of the usual bounciness found in real life.

Who knows, perhaps, it's like the FFB, there might be a typo, or incorrect setting in some suspension settings on certain cars. It would be great if we would have a spreadsheet to track the cars/tracks combo where the bounciness is easily reproducible and noticeable... Basically, helping the devs to narrow down the issues to compare the code/settings more easily.

 

@steelreserv Is there a master list of cars and tracks API I can download the data from somewhere, or you can share a file with such content? I will design/create a real issue/report tracker with pulldown menus vs using a bunch of inconsistent forum posts to nail down this bounciness problem once in for all...

 

Here's what I have in mind to efficiently collect the relevant data to easily analyze... with a list of cars and tracks, it would even easier. Here's the input form => Microsoft Forms

 

I like to tune my FFB and motion-effects to match the bumps in view (2D), and that works tends to work quite well in AMS2, overall.

Driving in VR is a bit different, especially if a motion system is involved, as it can compound the bump intensity. Such cases may require their own set of parameters (VR specific). Use of a motion system may actually help in some cases, including VR.

Another thing to consider is, Reiza may already have some changes in the works that will need to be factored in diagnosis of the bump / view issues.

 

Both the 911 Cup and 911 GT3 have this annoying knocking in the FFB that doesn't make any sense (no bumps or riding on bump stops afaik), that was introduced at some point.

 

Yes sorry I forgot to comment that I think its a good idea. Because as I mentioned above:
1. It looks like people probably does confuse 2 different problems: camera & car suspension.
2. After watching some VR videos I have realised that there could be a camera prob (in VR).

 

Just a slight pedantic proposal to your form.
"Do you feel the bounciness in the FFB as well?"
Yes/No.
But I have a non FFB wheel - so maybe a 3rd possibility?

 

What do you have a joystick? What should be the 3rd choice? N/A

 

Haha read my specs
But OK I have a socalled SRW-S1 wheel because I cannot use pedals caused by damaged legs.
But a 3rd choice could be kinda undefined: Non FFB device

 

I added the choice. Thanks for your input.