What do you think is the most significant reason AMS2 userbase is so small?

The game has been out 2 years now and failed to capture any significant amount of traffic. Why do you think that is? The game has a lot of the requirements simracers look for:
1. Looks great on monitors, vr is fantastic
2. Runs on fairly low PC specs
3. Has single player championship
4. Ai is improving/ not the worst of all sims
5. Has online ranking, multiplayer, and you don't even need a dedi server to set up a match.
6. Has GT3 and GTE cars. The GT3 are free as well.
7. Really solid car and track selections
8. Fast load times
9. Has been covered by the notable simracing Youtubers, some of which even recommend it.
10. A fantastic and possibly unmatched weather system.
11. Pricing is in line with or better than other sims.
So why do you think it is basically the lowest populated racing game?

 

1. When the game came out it was pretty rough around the edges, a lot of reviews came out then trashing the game. Most people probably saw this and wrote it off and have never bothered to check it out again

2. The UI is kind of ugly, not going to sugar coat it. Compared to Project cars 2, the UI is quite ugly and looks amateurish. The simulation itself is much better, but the UI kinda sucks. This might turn some people off. I know when I first tried the multiplayer UI, coming from Project cars 2, it was like going from a polished, professional look, to something that looked quite half baked so to speak.

3. Lack of popular tracks in the beginning. We have a lot more of the big name tracks now, but in the beginning there wasn't much, just a bunch of tracks nobody has ever heard of. Obviously this is going to turn the majority of sim racers off who want to race the big name tracks everyone knows.

There are probably some others but these ones stand out to me.

Don't get me wrong I love the game and haven't looked back to Project Cars since I started playing AMS2. AMS2 just surpassed PC2 in every way when it comes to the simulation but the reasons above are why I think it has and is struggling to get enough players.

 

You know I originally just assumed that all Pcars2 fans would flock to AMS2 (and there still is a solid player base in it.) So it is interesting to hear an opinion from someone that came from there. I actually like the AMS2 UI haha, but as long as it is logical I don't complain too much.
The feedback I have gotten from those who have purchased and not played it all seem to feel the driving experience is still lacking.

 

I think the driving experience is amazing in AMS2. PC2 feels like a cheap knockoff compared to AMS2 when it comes to the driving experience. The driving experience is great, they should focus on polishing other areas if they want to attract more fans.

I agree with all of your points in the original post. But there are other aspects that need improvement.

 

I have pondered this question myself many times. Marketing could also be a reason why. I would like to think that once it is polished and near finished that there will be no reason for number of players to not increase. It is still a bit rough round the edges in some areas and people do talk and social media negative posts will capture a lot of readers.
I find AMS2 far superior to rF2 but rF2 numbers are still higher, I think AMS2 is closing the gap though, my guess is the multiplayer side is why numbers are high in other sims and as Reiza polish this side of it it should capture more players.

 

If each and everyone of us would...

1. Post a positive review on Steam
2. Write a positive review on iRacing, AC, ACC, RRE, and other forums...

it would help popularizing this hidden gem.

 

This.
Things like focus on Brazilian content, lack of famous brands such as Ferrari & Lamborghini, and Madness engine, all play their part in the low player count, but imo poor marketing is maybe one of the main reasons we don't have more players playing AMS2.
I mean even here in Brazil I often talk to people who have never heard of the AMS games. On the other hand a lot of people I know have heard of games such as Gran Turismo, Forza, Need for Speed, Project Cars, and F1 games, even if they aren't sim racers.
Better marketing would definitely help make AMS2 more popular, Reiza can start by keeping the AMS2 website up to date, posting videos more often in their Youtube channel would be good too, like a video each week showcasing a specific car or track.

It would also help to have activities to keep players engaged: weekly time trials, weekly online races, esports competitions, I'm guessing Steam achievements will be implemented after career mode.

 

In 2020 I was part of a regular more casual german based racing club that established itself around Assetto Corsa and Raceroom. In march 2020 those guys where trying out ASM2 and where looking for new members. In the state the Game was in 2020 they abandoned it after two sessions and obviously never came back, mentioning something like PCARS 2 clone etc. leaving me back in the sump somehow.

That's my story.
I'm down to 3 regulars now.

 

I agree with FS7 about weekly time trials, challenges, etc. I thought they would already be in-place but Reiza keeps bringing in improvements to the physics that push the game one step forward and 2 steps back. However, ultimately this will improve the experience and assuming they can deliver the rest of the season pass content we won't care in a year.

It will take time for the player base to increase but it will. I think the small userbase is a plus at the moment as it lets the devs focus on their plan without too much grief from the players. If they grow too fast they risk overstretching themselves.

If we look at the 2 periods where the average player peaks were over 500 they were both related to Racin' USA. For Pt1, it lasted 6 weeks then dropped. For Pt2, it lasted 13 weeks and started dropping just this past weekend. The AI trains that don't pass each other probably contributed to that drop (though I'm sure that won't last too much longer).

They are already working on everything they need to keep it growing but I think we can average 750 peak users with the following:
1. AI passing, which will let the custom parameters shine
2. Weekly time-trials to introduce people to content they are unfamiliar with
3. Fix issues with wet weather tires (I haven't experienced it myself but I've seen it come up several times from other people)

There is so much still to come that I would be surprised if we don't hit 1000 by the end of the year. However, I think Racin' USA Pt.3 presents a huge challenge as it will add net-new capability to the engine but if done right it could be really fun, something you can't get outside iracing. I always thought oval racing was boring but I recently watched the '95, '98 and '2000 seasons of CART and now I love it (especially the short ovals like Phoenix). I can't wait to change the engine mapping on the fly and to have real full-course cautions.

 

I really don't think it is marketing to be honest. Everyone I sim race with knows what AMS2 is. The thousands of guys that still race AC, the thousands that race ACC, the thousands that race iracing, and the other sims incl RF2, R3E and Pcars2...these guys all know what AMS2 is. I don't think it is the Brazil label either, as one quick Youtube search of AMS2 pretty much brings up a ton of Porsches/ GT content. A lot of simracers own multiple sims but it seems most are not choosing to boot up AMS2.
Games like Gran Turismo and F1 20XX are different imo because these are geared for casual drivers. Many of these guys don't even know what Rfactor 2 is or R3E.
I have seen a couple reviews where someone complained their hardware didn't work or wasn't detected but that is a rarity and someone who gives up after 20 minutes of logged game time probably isn't a simracer anyway.

 

Part of it might be that the two leading competing sim racing titles foster exclusivity.

iRacing is a huge investment with excessively punishing physics, so if you are really into it there's a big barrier to spending time on anything else because of the sunk cost fallacy. ACC has strange physics that don't really translate from any other sim that I have tried and requires spending hundreds of hours to be even remotely competitive online, again requiring devotion to a single title. Then the lack of official multiplayer races in AMS2 seals the deal.

AC has a huge player base but it's mostly cruising, drifting, and people fiddling with endless mods, none of which really exist in AMS2. So AMS2 is left competing for the scraps with other variety racing sims like RaceRoom, rF2, and even AMS1. And the remaining PC2 player base hasn't migrated because they don't want to buy another full-price title with full-price DLC to end up with less content than they already had, and frankly, the average PC2 player probably doesn't care about realistic physics anyway.

 

Some really good points there. Do you think there are steps Reiza need to take or do you feel the current gameplan will yield results in time?

 

Lots of bugs and lack of polish in many areas, along with lack of complete content within classes.

The next comment has improved in areas and curtain cars but not everyone has been happy with the way the cars handle, base tunes and the ffb

The Brazilian content is unique and fun but isint gonna attract many non Brazilians.

People always ask for retro content, we get it, yet few use it in mp and is the story in all the Sims.

No touring cars which Raceroom and iracing have and not too mention the mods of AC.

GT3 is pretty lame content/brand wise, every other title features more variety and are better balanced.
ACC has replicated the series extremely well.

Ovals will be cool when added but I doubt many will leave iracing since it covers pretty much every RL series and has a plethora of tracks, great ai and hourly races with thousands of online racers and multiple splits.

As it stands, it does a few things good but nothing great as every sector of the game is still under long term development.

Time will tell as the game matures.

 

Expertise has taught me, if that girl you always wanted in school, has matured to much, you may not want her anymore.

 

that is something I wonder myself. Why is the UI what it is today. Not attractive at all. The sims is really great, love it but the UI does deserve an overhaul Which better suits the current standard.

 

Just replacing current font with a more modern font for the UI would do wonders.
And it is (supposedly) an easy thing to do.

 

Well ...
- Racing the AI is akin to racing bricks that drive and look like your vehicle while clearly driving something else, rendering the single player useless. It gets worse with changing weather conditions, so the excellent dynamic weather is not a factor at all, as it rarely gets used online and can't be used offline. This leads to AMS2 having no area where it excels, except the very limited VR market.
- Championship mode is the only thing that could have longevity, but it suffers greatly because there's zero sense of accomplishment when having won/lost something, there's just a return to screen button.
- physics are not really a USP anymore, because most sims feature decent phyiscs as of now.
- As a result of the lackluster AI, there is no longevity in built into the game; longevity has to come from multiplayer and time trial alone
- ...which suffer from a limited user base and the fact that other developers have done far more, especially for multiplayer
- what's left is a "jump in and drive a race quickly" sim which is doomed to fail to capture players in the long run.
- classes are integrated in a half-hearted way; e. g. there's still not a points system for any F1 car before 2010 in championship mode. There's also still not a reverse grid option (but that'd also be not so useful until the AI learns to overtake).
- In general this game suffers from a lack of polish and a lack of cohesiveness. It basically feels like a compilation of cars and tracks put into a game, with mostly decent physics, but lackluster in everything else.

TL;DR: Multiplayer is not the way to grow in my opinion, because it's very unlikely you'll be able to compete with iRacing or even ACC there. The multiplayer as it is is servicable and everyone who wants to play online, can do so in a satisfying way.

Offline racing, on the other hand, mostly just seems to make a mockery out of a race and therefore fails to capture. AI is simply too unpolished (with their lacking slipstreaming, their insane strategies, their non-available blue flag behaviour and their doubtful overtaking attempts at impossible spots as a bareer to the race feeling anything like a real race, even when the balancing is, for once, not completely off).

There is nothing to be accomplished in the game, not even trophies on Steam as of now. Make some cars/tracks unlockable by winning the custom championships (why not make Buenos Aires be the track you get once you've won three of those, or you get one Buenos Aires layout for each win). Have there be a celebration animation if you've won those. Bump the multiplayer rating if you've won the custom championship on a certain AI difficulty. Just ... something in order to make the offline section feel like it matters.

As it is, there's not really a reason to stay with AMS2 except in order to drive cars fast. You can do that elsewhere, and AMS2 arrived the latest of all places where you can do this.

What this all leads to, in my opinion, is this: If Reiza manage to give this game a cohesive career mode that actually feels like accomplishing something, like progressing through something and like doing so in a race, then this sim will stand as the only title with realistic driving behaviour that provides something like that.

Project CARS tried and fell flat on its face because of the very lacking AI and the lack of any accomplishment within career mode.

I'm heavily afraid that, when Reiza's career mode arrives, it will do just the same thing. I've actually thought a lot about what you could do with career mode in this game in order to make it interesting, but that's a topic for a different thread.

 

I believe what he is trying to say is that Market is now saturated and AMS2, despite all its qualities, don't attract more Simracing hardcore players and teh casual ones would go with FORZA and GRANTURISMO

to the negative UI comments, I don't sthinkmyself that the Reiza one is poor, actually I like it with the ease of navigating it with my wheel dpad for example.the same it is in PC2 wher in 3 clicks you are ready to race.

but it might be possible that many players put a strong focus on this.
I must admit that I had left RF2 unattended for months for example even if I loved some of cars/tracks combo physics because of the very poor UI functionality
and now that the UI overhaul took place, I have spent maybe 80% of my Simracing time with this title and started to love it again.

in regards to Marketing, from over here in Japan, I see AMS2 as just non existing. PC Simracing in general is focusing on AC for what I see but its so small in comparison to Console that I really wonder if that counts.

and that's maybe the Global solution for AMS2, bringing it to the masses of Console players that would them move to PC Gaming in bigger numbers

my 2p