What do you think is the most significant reason AMS2 userbase is so small?

The gains stayed from 1.3 though, so here's hoping 1.4 will result in a similar (or larger) permanent boost.

 

I think that the game is improved in 1.4 and Reiza making a hard work but too many contents = too many bugs or issues.
After two years and half of development I'm not happy of this game.
In my opinion potentially the best racing game in the world but in reality not yet.

 

If it would be perfect after half of developement (as you say), the second half would be useles.

 

Coming back to this after the 1.4 release and it looks like the numbers definitely increased but not permanently...yet. I think we are a patch away, so hopefully in the next week or two we'll get 1.4.2.0 that will fix the last few cars and hopefully include some quality of life improvements.

The good news is that people are enjoying what is available in 1.4.1.3 and see the potential for the title with just a little more work. Not sure if anyone seen the stream of a lobby with GPLaps, some devs and others but they were able to have some good races and hopefully identified some easy fixes that we'll see soon.

Doesn't help anyone on the US West coast though lol, numbers are still really low. I haven't tried downloading the SteamDB database but I'd like to see the minimum player count over time, as sadly the minimum is usually around 10pm PST for all sims. So when we talk numbers I don't compare AMS2 vs ACC at the peaks but at the minimum which is actually a lot closer (160 vs 600 compared to 700 vs 4000).

How do we grow the US player base? Racin' USA seems to be mostly Europeans enjoying US racing lol.

 

AMS2 still under development
When the lesser quality cars (that I think give ams2 a bad name) are updated so there more consistently in quality & other issues with physics are sorted then I really think ams2 will become the main go to sim for the masses
Online leagues/choice will surely become good as a result

Great physics, ffb & quality consistency is where the key is

surprised there’s so many cars not surprised (due to the high qty) that a lot of them are no good

 

It is a really enjoyable game as it stands, but there are some things that still need sorting and adding if the following order:
1. Fix bugs to multiplayer servers - there are still too many server crashes
2. Introduce a robust ranking and safety system with clear progression, and seasons for classes - similar to iRacing or LFM
3. A sense of progression of skills such as in ACC.
4. A career mode with things to aim for such as titles
5. Animations for podiums/titles
6. Polish existing content ahead of introducing new content
7. When existing content polished then prioritise a few new big car brands, eg Ferrari
8. Add classic tracks - Indy, Le Mans, 1960s Spa and Monza
9. Modern Indycars and more Indy tracks
10. Ability to do endurance events with driver swaps.

 

totaly agree but...
reiza had literally presale all this new content. this new content pays for the polishing of the existing.
also, many AMS2 players, despite the aboundance of existing content, asking for more all the time.
i guess, most of the players are here for the quantity.

 

I wouldn't say we're here for quantity, it's just hard to satisfy the various niches of racing without a large amount of vehicles to choose from. Now that Reiza has shown they are not going to forget the oldest content and have a strong dedication to quality (even if it takes awhile) they want their favorite cars/classes to be a part of AMS2.

1.4 was really close to keeping the numbers high but maybe the next patch will keep people around. AMS2 could have 2023 all to itself if it can get the momentum really going in the next few months. AC2 and PC4 won't arrive until 2024, GTR Revival is probably going to be a 2025 title and Rennsport isn't in the same category.

I guess there's the new Forza coming soon, maybe we can snag some of the players there that are looking for something more. I'd imagine that's how most of us got hooked in the first place. So devs, get those controller improvements out before Forza releases so they can have a smooth transition.

 

Regarding adding more and more content, what is the point really? GT3 at Spa is all people do all day lol

Unless the offline numbers are massively larger than online numbers, my conclusion is that people ask for new content, but always fallback to the fixed setup GT3 at Spa sunny day stuff.

Finally, people ask for more realism, Reiza adds unprecedent AMDM, but the players throw it in the bin. They rather race with no damage, driving assists on, ghosted vehicles, AI pitstops, fixed setup lobbies.

How?

 

I think that users need to have a focus through official events: if you leave them alone they will split in many small lobbies. But if they know there are certain planned servers with certain content that will make them "pile" up even if the offer is not 100% what they are looking for. I would probably not put up a server with PCups but if I find one and that is certain to have good participation I would join it. I'm sure many feel the same.
Provide a reasonable choice of 2-3 staggered servers starting every hour or half an hour and people will focus there especially if the servers are up for one consecutive week: they will take the time to practice and then join the races knowing that what they practice will still be there when they feel ready to go racing.
Casual lobby races are a jump in the dark many won't take and by the time they are familiar with the combo the lobby will be long gone.

 

Rfactor 2 fell down in the way some of the older cars have annoying faults the historic formula cars for instance mirrors are impossible to set correctly
Devs to busy churning out new cars & tracks

 

"What do you think is the most significant reason AMS2 userbase is so small?"
I know the answer to this; no grid girls.

 

The first week had 750 people at peak every day of the week, then it dropped to 6xx, then 5xx and will probably be back to 500 this week. To me, that means there are at least 750 people out there (and it was almost 1000 on the Italian GP Sunday) that want to regularly play AMS2 but something is holding them back, be it a bug with the physics or pitstops or ai, etc. Either way, they keep coming back to try out the game only to decide to shelve it and try again after the next patch.

I think the offline numbers are indeed higher but I don't know how to verify that other than comparing SteamDB numbers to the amount of players in the MP lobbies.

 

No MP structure. When we had 1200 players a day the first 1.4 days there was a vert small fraction of them visible online. Likely AMS2 stats are skewed towards offline use as there is close to no MP architecture. Those who venture online, quickly get annoyed by its quirks and leave the sim for another few months. It's like leaving on the table half of the potential users for the sim. Possibly even more than 50% as I am not convinced the polls Reiza had that said that simracers are equally split between MP and SP users is actually up to date with the current habits of the average simracer anymore.

 

It probably depends on the game as well. The most popular offline game has to be Assetto Corsa, with Project Cars 2 (in its heyday) another popular offline title. AMS2 is also on that list and will keep growing.

I think that's because those titles have a wide variety of content and are great for hot lapping. They also have somewhat terrible AI so AMS2 has a really good opportunity to corner the offline market.

Reiza will hopefully be rolling out more MP improvements soon, as that request has to be at or near the top of the current fan requests.

 

Nevertheless I'm glad Reiza added all those options to "enable" realism. Personally AMS2 would be the perfect offline sim for me if the AI were good enough, but I think it’s still a long way to go to reach for example Iracing AI quality (which is the best in the market imo). Speaking of online racing: well yes....it's GT3 cars everywhere with Spa or Monza. I have no hope to ever find for example a Group C lobby with realistic settings and decent drivers ever. Not only in AMS2 but also in other sims. That's why I'm not really interested in public multiplayer anymore but hope for better AI. Unless you join a league you'll never see vintage racecars online, that’s sadly how it is.

Reiza gives us the tools and options but it’s on us to utilize them.

 

Sometimes I think people are a bit overwhelmed with so many different classes from different eras and cars so they tend to drive the same combos over and over again. Then a 'new' combo appears and suddenly you see 2 or 3 lobbies with the either the same combo, track or class.

At least that's my impression. Happened yesterday with Monza Historic '91. Such a great version of Monza, I hadn't seen that track being used before, someone opened a lobby with V10s Gen2 and then all of a sudden you had 2 or 3 lobbies with Monza '91.
The same happened with VIR not too long ago, another track you don't see that often. So people seem to pick up ideas from the MP lobby screen.

I agree, I'd love to see at least some Group C or some other rare combos. I saw a Formula Vintage @Brands Hatch lobby the other day and I joined just to try that out, and to my surprise it was fantastic, such a fun combo. Unfortunately nobody else joined, we were just 3 people.

There are some true gems among all the possible combos that are waiting to be discovered! ^^

 

I tried creating lobbies with FVintage, FRetro and cia on historic tracks, full on sim settings, nobody joins. Meanwhile, GT3 at Spa with fixed setup and driving assists ON is full 26/26. As long as they are having fun, good for them. But it is such a waste of AMS2's qualities.

Open lobbies are just that ****ty, naturally, I know. Ideally AMS2 should work with leagues, but it definitely lacks a lot of features before it is a league-friendly sim. AI is what it is, not on par with racing vs humans (as with any sim), so not my cup of tea.

In the end, I dont really have anything to do in AMS2, except angrily join random GT3 fixed setup sunny Spa all driving assists ON damage OFF lobbies lol

 

Well, GT3s do have both TCS and ABS so why shouldn't they be used in online races? Imo public online racing isn't as bad as people say it is. Sure, you get the odd dirty driver who likes to destroy braking markers just for the giggles and who dive bombs you from a few light years back, but I've seen plenty of good lobbies where people respect each other. Races are generally too short imo, that's one of the main issues with online racing in AMS2.

 

I don't play online much but I think one of these days I'll try creating a lobby with the title "no GT3 allowed" just to see how many people will join. 10 minute qualifying, 20-30 minute races, realistic assists, full damage, fuel/tyre wear enabled, custom setups allowed. I'll probably choose between Stock Car 2019, Porsche Cup, and GT1, maybe some modern open-wheel like F-V10 or something. Track selection will include anything that except Spa & Monza.