sound problems

Discussion in 'Automobilista - Help & Support' started by testdriver69, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. testdriver69

    testdriver69 New Member

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    I tried recent update 1.3 and adelaide with 15 mini coopers.
    At start when all cars get off the line the sound cuts out.
    It sounds like all the engine noise together get too loud and overpower.. .. difficult to describe but it sounds terrible. like too many sound channels interfere one another ... like white noise
    when the field is stretched out sound is ok again like normal
    anyone noticed this too ?
     
  2. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Pls, write your system specs. Sound cuts out completely?
    Is graphics running normal?
     
  3. testdriver69

    testdriver69 New Member

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    no slowdowns just hardcore sound crackle
    system specs are in my sig
     
  4. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you have any output filter on sound card turned on in windows? If you could capture a video that would be the best.
     
  5. testdriver69

    testdriver69 New Member

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    when i am in the pack sound is terrible
    i tried it with 10 AI cars , no sound problem !

    sorry just a quick video, i have to look after the kids :p

    but you can hear the crackling sound

    no outputfilter or whatever
    ac rre rf2 all work flawlessly
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  6. Xzess

    Xzess New Member

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    What soundcard do you have? If you use some kind of "pro" soundcard just turn the buffer up in asio driver as that buffer affects also windows audio and can cause buffer problems. also deactivate reberb ingame, this can stress your soundcard.


    (also automobilista audio work is a total mess).
     
  7. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Changing card buffer won't help. Error is elsewhere.
    Reverb does not stress any sort of sound card and it does not depend on it at all.
    It's part of a game audio engine and uses very little cpu.
    @Xzess Please explain "audio work is a total mess"?
     
  8. testdriver69

    testdriver69 New Member

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    it is the onboardsound of my board, realtek
    only thing i can tell you it happens somwhere between 10 and 20 ai cars
    with 10 cars no problem no matter where i position my own car
    with 20 .. as you can see , i tried to position myself midfield it crackls hardcore ...

    at the end of the video is the replay
    there the sound goes bad too
    good example to investigate @ 02:00
    thanks for looking into this !

    let my know if i can test or help
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  9. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    No need to thank, it just needs to work properly.
    This enviromental audio will be wip for some time for now.
    Theres also some other things in audio engine aside just enhanced audio.
     
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  10. Xzess

    Xzess New Member

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    Audio Buffer in a ASIO card could be the problem. I have test this with some "pro" cards as Focusrite and RME. Changing Buffer would also affect windows audio engine at least in windows 10.

    Audio is done in a bad way, not tecnichal at all, as i have posted here and in steam forum.

    Audio samples have tons of bad offset, this causes clicks ad pops when the audio engine loops and mixes samples, this is a fact i know what I am talking, and I did some rework in some and resolves the problem. This problem is present in the game regardless the computer/soundcard, pops are in some cars more noticiable than others, but it's only a offset problem. Another problem is that samples are in various frecuencies as 44khz and 96 Khz, they are even not multipliers, this causes DAC/software to convert sample rate causing high stress to cpu and soundcard. This can be easily fixed with a batch convert to all into 48khz, or 44Khz. It's preferred in 48Khz, but every sample at the same samplerate please so DAC converter would not stress. This can cause the bug we see here as the soft tryes to resample 44 and 96 mixed samples into 48 (windows default). If you have all in 48 then resample it's not done, cpu saving, and way less problems.


    In the video of this post you can hear pops caused by bad offset exactly at:
    0:59 when reducing gear to 3 and then again to 2. it's like a single click when sample changes. This happens to all, not related to this exact bug, you can see this in other youtube videos, look for the mini it has bad offset.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
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  11. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    hum... @Domagoj Lovric , worth a try?
    (I am still chasing the spotter stutter, maybe is related to audio quality)
    Are all the game sounds on folders?
    I mean, no need to look on compressed files or similar?
    @Xzess which software can be used to perform a batch convert of all sound files into 48khz?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  12. Xzess

    Xzess New Member

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    I used Reaper it's a low priced DAW, and free to try. Good enought to do this task. I did in most of samples of automobilista, but they need to be redone almost entirely cause clicks also occurr in middle sample, as the sound worker of this game also didn't remove offset between samples when merging them in loops.
    @DaVeX To test if sound is a problem to you, just rename "sounds" folder in gamedata to something different, as this, no sample will be loaded and you will know if causes some sttuter.
    @DaVeX @Domagoj Lovric @testdriver69 I can reproduce the bug, it's caused by the reverb, It causes audio buffer problems, developers should increase audio buffer if they can.
    I'll uploading standart used samples to test this in your case.

    Turn off reverb, problem solved.
     
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  13. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Just a note, error with distortion has been identified and fix is in the testing process.

    @Xzess As for samples being 96kHz, there is actually a very good reason for that.
    Since you obviously know about it, you are free to resample any car, i suggest Camaro as there it will most noticable. Resample it to 44.1 or 48 and test it. Come here to tell what you heard vs 96 kHz ones.
    What you will hear is reminiscent of old settings that came to us with whole game engine, which we didn't dive into until recently. Improvements (more on that later) on that front are in the plans for next patch, along with enhancements to enviromental audio modelling.

    Game audio engine opens sound card in 16bit / two channel / 44.1 kHz. All game audio is resampled in audio engine prior to being sent to sound card.
    Audio buffer in game is variable and depends mostly on system load / speed, but usually it is quite small.

    Most game samples are loops. You can't always loop them ideally and some pops in the middle remain. You can't have an offset on a looped sample. How would that sound? Small volume variation in sample is clearly audible when looping.
    And another thing. You may introduce some offset, but FYI game audio engine mostly randomizes sample start point (for looped samples). Randomization is constrained to be mostly on beggining of a file, but it certainly does not seek for zero crossover point where it will start a sample.
    And on top of that, not a single sample is started with it's own volume. There is a small amount of volume ramp (fade in) for just about every individual sound in the game. This has also been defaulted to small value, and this value actually is defined in number of samples.
    So final "time" will depend on sample rate. This is probably reason why you heard less clicks with lower sample rate. But what you heard with camaro @44.1 or 48 (was) bigger con then having samples occasionally click when at 96kHz, but without what you can hear when samples are at 44.1Hz.
     
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  14. Scraper

    Scraper Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Good work on finding and squashing a distortion bug. The improvements and enhancements promise to be exciting. I shall keep an ear cocked for this. ;)
     
  15. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    As much as will be possible with mss7.0 engine that we have in this engine. We haven't even thought that anything can be done with it.
     
  16. Scraper

    Scraper Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I will temper my expectations. :)
     
  17. Xzess

    Xzess New Member

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    @Domagoj Lovric Mmm i think I didn't explain ok. For the Khz problem, maybe it doesn't make any diference just is a mess as it is, but it's a way to smoohing things, do it right and debug future problems. I thought that it was old data or sound engineer change, good to know I was right.

    And for de cero offset, yes cero offset it's needed to avoid clicks, I am 100% sure this is causing clicks and pops in Automobilista. I did some rework in some cars and clicks where gone. Also to say yes to make loop samples you have to search for cero offset if not it's bad done, you cannot loop in any place as clickpops occur. Also not only engine samples are bad offset some road and ambient too as curbs..I will rework camaro samples just to clarify. I'll put a sample here, before\after.

    For the random loop start of the engine, I don't know how it works but if offset it's good sound it's smooth. You can see the metalmoro sound I did in little time, with a youtube video, see my posts.
     
  18. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    For kHz "problem" you will hear with camaro when you downsample it why we opted for space and ram hogging 96kHz samples. That needs code fixing, isn't yet announced but is in the works.

    I'm talking from experience of working on this engine for 10 years. Hint: mono samples are much easier to loop without artifacts. Wide stereo ones, are harder to tame. But thinking that looping them in zero crossing and that it will solve problems, trust me it won't always. I usually loop them so they are as continous as can be, ie halfway on a positive crest (hence you see many of them not on zero crossing, or if possible so "crests" and "valleys" meet at zero point). I won't say i am 100% right, as earlier work i did has errors, but you only have so much time to fix everything.

    I'll try clarify what i wanted to say above, in game every sample when started for playing isn't started at it's "natural" volume, but is faded in. Engine originally had this (and still has) default to only 32 sample points, which on 44.1 kHz is about 0.7 ms, on most of 96kHz sample it ends up whopping small 0.3ms. This is why i said that downsampled samples are less likely to produce clicks. For random offset - sound engine does not start samples always at same point. Hence you can't prepare them with zero offsets at begining and ending.


    About that defaults - we didn't know about any of these, as alot of other things have higher priority on coding front, and my c++ never gotten much further then "hello world". So i tackled on learning it for almost a year occasionally, but am pushing as much as i can for last two or three months, so things started moving...
     
  19. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    @Xzess here is my apology to you, since we're in process of changing some of the above mentioned defaults, i had to go through all samples resampling. And took closer look, yes threre were quite a bit with pops where loop points were. These are corrected now, thanks for heads up.
     
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  20. Scraper

    Scraper Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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