Formula vintage gen 1 + gen 2

Hello dear sim racers, I really like the formula vintage, especially the gen 2 variant. Only find the default setup a bit inconvenient does anyone have some tips for me to get a better driving behaviour? has this car been updated yet? Love these vintage formula cars very much. All help is much appreciated!

Nice day

 

I would be interested in that as well.

The cars are pretty understeery and a little to tame and stable. It's completely impossible to spin out even with the 67 models, no matter what you do. There is also no lift off oversteer. You can lift off the throttle mid corner and nothing happens. You can't steer the cars with the throttle.

 

That's my problem. I don't have the knowledge to do a proper setup. It would be really nice if the game had multiple default setups, including some more aggressive ones.

 

I just tried to change some settings you suggested. Even with pretty extreme values, there still is no lift off oversteer. I can't position the rear end how I like it. Shouldn't a car turn in if you lift off the throttle while steering? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

Maybe what you're looking for is not "lift off oversteer" as much as it is the response the car has when you remove on-throttle understeer? In other words, if a car has a natural tendency to understeer on throttle, lifting the throttle during a turn will give the car a more neutral balance, and the car will start to rotate better?

If that's the case, the reason why you can't get the desired behavior could be that the F-Vintage doesn't want to understeer on throttle?

I enjoy driving the F-Vintage cars, but I don't balance their handling so much on the throttle, instead I balance their handling on the brake. So on turn-in: Brake (but not so hard that wheels lock up), then turn to induce understeer, then release brake slowly a little bit, and the car should start to rotate into the corner, even on the default setup which is quite stable/understeery. Especially compared to the Lotus 49 in Assetto Corsa / iRacing, where this car is steered very much from the throttle and not from the brake like in AMS2.

Are there any car/track combos that you struggle specifically much with? Maybe I can demonstrate how I drive the car there?

 

thanks for all the info from the real Ams 2 drivers .. yesterday at imola 71 the AI was faster on the straight. is there an explanation for this? I'm going to try it all tonight. i really like this vintage thing, im not much of a setup guy myself but had read a setup tip on the lotus from tarmac terorist at spa and it was very helpful

 

Yess

 

Okay so that means you can't do good offline races with it?

 

Interesting set up technique... I tend to balance corner exit after I've got a brake bias so it doesn't lock up and focus so I can drive/steer on the throttle without fear and then work on getting a very similar feel into the corners... So I have a balance of handling both ways... There's always a trade off to happen, but if I can do both I have enough confidence to push, if I can do one and not the other I struggle until I find a balance at both ends in AMS2...

In the rFactors, AMS1 and AC it was always about corner exit and getting a set up that worked there, whilst making the balance on the brakes stable enough for me to do the rest of the work... But there was always a much heavier focus on the on throttle balance of those in comparison...

I also find that I'm doing less work on the set up in the middle of the corners in AMS2 and really hone in on entry and exit...

 

I still don't understand why the 67 F1 cars are doing the exact opposite of what I learned in real life driver trainings (Caterhams, MX5) on the track.

If the load changes to the front, the rear end should go light.

Also if you pin the throttle mid corner, the rear end should become loose in those super light, rear engine, RWD bathtubs. Try this in an old Porsche and you spin out instantly, if you don't know what you're doing.

In the game, even with extreme setup values and doing everything wrong, it's completely impossible to spin or even unsettle those cars. It feels like some artificial force is stabilizing the car. It feels like you're on a rubber band that pulls you back.

What's so different on those 67 cars, that they don't react to load changes / weight transfer at all?

 

You cant compare a Caterham with a 60s F1 car, different tires, suspension,etc. I can feel the load and weight transfer just fine, you cant drive these cars drifting them around every corner.

 

Michael Magnus, I agree with some of your suspicions, but I do think the situation is a bit less clear-cut.

Below is the best example I could find of a high-quality onboard video where a professional race driver is driving a Lotus 49 close to the limit. In this video, we see how the car on-throttle/off-throttle balance changes after the outlap, and even how it changes between hotlap 1 and hotlap 2. These changes could be due to tire temperature, due to the driver getting used to the car, or due to other factors.

Clear example:
@ 2:56 - Turn 2 on first hotlap:
- Mild lift-off oversteer followed by gentle throttle application to stabilize the car
@ 5:16 - Turn 2 on second hotlap:
- On-throttle slip angle: First a bit too much (oversteer), so throttle is reduced to stabilize the car, but on the second throttle application the slip angle "sticks"

In other words, the car balance on hotlap 2 is nearly the opposite of hotlap 1 in the example above

Less clear example:
@ 3:13 - Turn 6 on first hotlap:
- Lift-off oversteer, but a bit delayed after releasing throttle (not as immediate as in AC or iRacing)
@ 5:31, Turn 6 on second hotlap:
- Kind of a blend between on-throttle and off-throttle slip angle, possibly due to a delayed response from the throttle change until the car reacts

Bonus discovery:
@ 1:45 - Downshift into 1st results in oversteer due to strong engine braking, the same happens again in the next two tight corners
- I can't say that I feel much engine braking in the F-Vintage cars. @CrimsonEminence can you forward to Reiza that they could look more into this? Both in AC and iRacing the Lotus 49 has much more engine braking than in AMS2, and those sims seem to have gotten closer to the same "shift into 1st and the car snaps on you" behavior that we see in the video. If the F-Vintage engine braking in AMS2 is indeed a bit too low, that could be a contributing factor to why previous commenters don't feel much off-throttle rotation.

 

I just watched the video, and I noticed the driver is very gentle on the throttle while cornering. In the game, you can floor it mid corner and nothing bad will happen. And maybe you're right with the engine braking. Maybe the weight shift to the front is to gentle to be noticeable.

 

Yes, and if you tried earlier versions of AMS2 and remember how the F-Vintage and F-Retro felt before limited slip differentials could open properly, these car classes were the worst affected by that bug and the weird on/off throttle balance behavior was much more extreme than now. So it's a matter of Reiza fine-tuning car properties until the sweet spot is found, so that the underlying proper car balance is revealed.

And another point on the "weight shift to the front": It's not just about weight shift, and it's not just about tire grip. It's about a combination of the two. In AMS2, a mild weight shift to the front will get the front tires to grip and the rear tires to slip, but a strong weight shift to the front can overload the front tires and create understeer instead. Basically you end up "outside the traction circle" in the front. Not many sims behave like this, but I think rFactor 2 also does this in some circumstances with its 1950s cars. This behavior depends on the type of tires, though, so it's hard to notice in GT3 cars but easy to notice in the F-Vintage.

This is a general tip for driving the F-Vintage: Be smooth and gentle with your input changes, both when adjusting the throttle and when adjusting the brake. In my experience, if you make too abrupt changes, the car just refuses to obey. And be patient! Give the car time to balance itself. Plan corners early, and look far ahead, beyond the apex. It takes practice.