Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

The top time for the Gen 1 in Time Attack is currently 30.1, if on 97% difficulty they are just 0.2 seconds slower, and are beating that at 101, then I consider it too fast.
I have similar experience on Fontana with Gen 2, while I'm able to race the AI on Daytona at 105% difficulty no problems, they leave me in dust (I'm 0.6s slower) in Fontana.

 

The new AI logic in the RC is great... You can tell the AI thinks a lot more... However...

They think a little too much...

I ran a 3 class race at Daytona road course and discovered that the AI struggles with making a clear decision when passing slower classes on the banked turns... It wants to get a toe and wants to overtake but can't make up it's mind so it lifts off for a split second before going around the outside allowing the player car to gain half a second to a second...

 

Group C (driving the C9)
Hockenheim 1988 Full Course
AI: 107%
Aggression: Medium
24 lap race

Weather: Overcast to random
Progression: 5x

Overall I'm 2 sec per lap faster than the AI (Porsche and Sauber).
I used 80% turbo, perhaps that's a reason?

Nordkurve: AI is a bit slow here
Bremskurve 2: the AI could brake later here and also drive faster through this chicane
Bremskurve 3: same here

 

I watched Tarmac Terrorist multi-class Ai video on Race Department yesterday and got all excited that the AI had improved.
I tried a few multi-class combos just to experience the same old issue of faster classes struggling to pass slower classes, along with the same issues posted above by other members.

AI strength: 110
Aggression: max
Classes: DPI, GT3 & GT4
Tracks: Nords Combines, Spa 22, Daytona and Brands Hatch.

With the vast amount of content and combos available, it would be nice if Reiza or a forum admin could post the current optimized AI combos and keep them up to date with each new build.

Another concern I have with the AI strength....I am no alien by any means, a mid-packer at best and usually 1-2 seconds off the top leaderboard times.
For many of the combos, I'm running 110 -120 strength and can set the fastest times in the session. If I was to improve my skills the Ai will eventually become maxed out and non-competitive. So if a mid-packer is reaching near AI strength.....the faster guys will get bored pretty quickly.

As the AI gets optimized will I have to dial back the overall strength?

For AI racing my go-to reference for comparing titles is iRacing, I like how they have only released fairly optimized combs each build and for AI strength, I am only running 65-75% and battling for a top 10 finish, which gives me a lot of headroom to improve the difficulty.
I also truly enjoy the in-game driver customization available as opposed to file editing, I can't wait for that to be implemented into AMS2

 

• Car / Track used: Mini JCW / Donington
  
• AI Strength setting: 117
  
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): MELBOURNE HAIRPIN (I think it's Turn 10)
  
• AI Aggression setting: Max
  
• Session Distance: 15 min (100% distance, this is in championship mode)
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry, autumn
  
• Player Tyre: Default - slick
  
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player): same tyre
  
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): noticed in race but I guess the issue is permanent.

So the issue is that in mentioned hairpin, the AI performance is poor under braking. They brake early making it super easy to overtake. Same issue observed on Adelaide track (same car, dry track) at Dequetteville corner (T11) with AI at 120%. I am not an alien, so having the AI maxed out clearly points that they are doing something wrong.

Not sure what is the best way to communicate this kind of stuff to the developers, I would like to help Also, on Adelaide track the AI exit out of turn 7 (before long straight) is really poor, again making it super easy to overtake. This is wrong, especially if AI is at 120.

 

• Version: Current RC (V1.4.3.0.2189)
  
• Car / Track used: Lotus 23 (Vintage TC Tier 1) at Snetterton 100
  
• AI Strength setting: 85
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): Most if not all of them!
  
• AI Aggression setting: Low
  
• Session Distance: 15 or 20 Minutes
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Random / Clear Skies (14:00 starting time, default date)
  
• Player Tyre: Vintage (Default)
  
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player): Overpowered?
  
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Qualifying and Race

Actual AI performance seems to be too high at the given Strength level of 85.

Moreover, AI Cars - the Lotus 23 in particular - literally appear as if they are driving on rails; there is no locking up of the brakes, the cars appear perfectly stable, can brake extremely late, carry slightly more speed through the corners than should be possible and accelerate out of corners as if they were using slicks and semi-automatic transmission!

Even with automatic clutch (the only aid I use) shifting from one gear to another takes a moment, but the AI seems to have gear shifts that are better than perfect. Their downshifts are also *always* perfect, which is particularly noticeable in older cars.

 

• Version: Current RC (V1.4.3.0.2189)
  
• Car / Track used: BMW M1 Procar at Azure Circuit
  
• AI Strength setting: both 90 and 105
  
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): Rascasse/Turn 17
  
• AI Aggression setting: High
  
• Session Distance: 15 or 20 Minutes
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Clear
  
• Player Tyre: Default(I believe it's Slick)
  
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player): Default
  
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Race but could be possible in others

AI very rarely(but it can happen), turn in too early, causing them to hit the inside wall and manage to flip their car causing track blockage. They were single file to it's not like they were squeezed there or anything. I only had it happen in race sessions but as I said it could probably happen in practice or quali. I'm sure this can happen in other cars as well but I've only raced the Procar at Azure. Had it happen on both 90(when I was feeling out the combo and learning the track) and 105(when I realized I was way too quick for 90) difficulty.

 

• Release candidate
• Car / Track used: rental kart/ortana kart 1
• AI Strength setting: 100
• Corner (if issue is corner specific):
• AI Aggression setting:all
• Session Distance:
• Weather when the issue was observed:
• Player Tyre:
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player):
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race) all

The AI is about 6 second per lap faster on the release candidate than they were on the late official version. From testing this appears true for all of the karts.

 

Since the last great update with the new ai features , is the ai very bad @ the moment!
Please fix this Reiza , thanks

 

How do you think Reiza are going to make use of your comment at all? You could not be more vague if you tried. Try to document what your issue is, how you create the situation (your race settings, car used, track, etc) and maybe then they would have an idea of what your issue is.

 

The Copa Uno might need a balance pass at some point. The AI at skill 105 on Guapore does lap times roughly 1 second better than the top of the leaderboard for that combination.

 

• Version: Pre Release candidate
  
• Car / Track used: Corvette GTP (Happens with other cars too)/Road America
  
• AI Strength setting: 107
• AI Aggression setting: Medium

The AI often forgets to get out of the slipstream and crashes into my rear which sends me of the track. Very annoying. The A.I. behaviour need some major improvements. Right now its just mediocre at best. Maybe make them a little more conservative. Right now they try to overtake at every part of the track even when overtaking is impossible.

 

Still the same in latest release candidate...

 

I've been doing some more AI races recently and I think that one of the main issues compared to the player is the distribution of mechanical grip for the AI.

They seem to have a lot more rear mechanical grip than the player. They can brake much later into and through medium/high speed corners and control the rear end. Then they get to a front limited corner or mid-apex and are much slower than the player.

I think this also explains why they are so much better in traction zones and in the wet.

 

With the latest release candidate I've notice these observations with the AI so far this week...

Firstly I have to echo Mhad's comment above... It explains the way they square off all the corners so much and are good on entry and exit but suffer through the middle of a lot of corners...

The AI also suffers from a lot more tyre wear and consistency issues after the 2/3s marker of any race... The AI go from keeping pace, to being 1-2 seconds off the pace almost as the 2/3s of the race marker hits everytime...

On tight tracks and some of the newer ones the AI spends far too much time trying to decide if it's going to overtake a slower car, this has been lessoned with the RC but is still a huge problem with same class cars try to lap slower cars... But on a tight circuit even with a much powerful car in another class the AI spends far too much time thinking about a move without pulling the trigger...

 

But there is an exception:
In example, at Road America, they seem unable to have a proper overtake before the hairpin after the long straight at the end of sector one. Both cars want to go to the racing line and ram each others.

But when player is ahead of two AI, car on P3 overtakes car on P2 quite often WITHOUT this ramming of other car from the ideal line, driving on the inside instead in order to catch human player. So, to me it seems that the AI behaves different when player is near.

It is the same in Imola 88 before Tosa and on some other tracks.

 

I've been running a season with the Formula V10 Gen 2 cars with a 2000 F1 skinset on them, and man, has this shown me some big issues with the ai for this car in particular.

First up, the way they take corners is incredibly unnatural and kind of overpowered. They check up majorly into most corners, but then on exit, somehow get the grip of the gods and still beat the player off. The check up coming out of nowhere also can cause the player to plow into the back of the ai often since they aren't expecting an F1 car to decide they need to take a corner at the speed of the average lawn mower.

Second, the ai need some sort of damage update because clearly they are not getting the same damage as the player. At Monaco, I witnessed an ai hit the wall, do a weird pirouette thing, and continue on like nothing had happened. Where if I, the player, barely tap the wall, I've got suspension and maybe wing damage. Kind of ruins the fun of a long race when I inevitably get damage from slight contact but the car I hit continues on like nothing ever happened.

This is a known issue with every car in the game, but the ai still love dipping tires off the track causing massive amounts of dirt to buildup on the track, making long races suck due to having no grip if you even slightly mess up a corner.

At Monaco specifically, the ai struggle to line up for a restart after a yellow. It only did it for some cautions, but they would leave almost a 2 second gap in between each car for no reason. I also had some in that race where they lined up just like normal.

Another Monaco thing, this could have just been a one-off, but thought I'd report it anyways. I was going a lap down(after pitting due to some of that inevitable damage I mentioned), and coming into the hairpin, one of the lead lap cars just absolutely punted me, right into the wall, I braked at my normal point, maybe slightly earlier but nothing atrocious. The ai are on medium aggression in my season so it definitely took me off guard.

Another lap car thing. In my race at Interlagos, an ai in one of the backmarker cars was going a lap down. So in turn 3(you know, that flat out corner), they decided to just slam the brakes directly in front of me. Maybe because of the blue flag they wanted to let a lead lap car by but I have not had that happen in any race since with lappers. So maybe something to look at.

This might be intended behavior but thought I'd mention it. The player cannot see a difference between wet and dry tires on the ai. During a wet race where the ai clearly were on wets(if they weren't that's another can of worms to open because that would be very alarming), but to me I still saw dry slick tires.

The ai have improved so much over the course of this past year in the game, but there is still a lot of things to work out for them to not be complete pain to race against sometimes.

 

This odd issue is as old as the game itself: AI brake to late before corners, but because of their magic physics, they somehow manage to stay on track. And then, on the apex, where they should already accelerate again, they almost stand still and player has to brake hard in order to avoid car in front.
Although they have this poor behaviour in slow corners, they can rush out like rockets.
So, their method to drive through slow curves is not "slow in, fast out", but "fast in, stand still, rocket out".

 

Montreal 1988:
When player is in front, AI enters last fast chicane way too aggressive, tending to ram human driver out of track. If there is already a gap between human and AI, it enters the corner in a more civilised manner.

 

100% agree...

When AI is racing AI it thinks far too much and often almost gets the job done and then backs out... Then there's some obvious AI paths not being found like you did at Elkhart Lake...

But when AI is racing the player it doesn't think anywhere near as much, therefore makes decisive moves and actively avoids the player car whilst also trying to do far cleaner moves than when they are just around other AI...