Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

This is why I think it comes down to their mechanical grip.

They can trail brake much later than you and never loose the rear like the player would. Then mid apex they have no front mechanical grip so take it much slower than the player. Then under acceleration their excessive rear grip gives them great traction.

 

I think more than their grip and whatnot, the main issue is the calibration in their logic when racing against each other and the braking and racing lines they take. I assume they have to calibrate this on a track by track and car by car basis, hence the inconsistencies.

This problem is much more apparent in the high speed open wheelers on high corner speed tracks like imola( they are pretty bad there).
Try Adelaide historic in the wet (FV12)and they spin on the last right hander with the puddles, so in their more simple physics they still lose grip on the wet, it's all just inconsistent and in need of some fine tuning. Lets hope they can spend the time and resources on the AI to make them more consistent across al classes and tracks. I love the AI when it works though, so there is huge potential.

 

I hope the AI can be tuned to tone down how much they weave from side to side, especially on high speed tracks like 70's Spa. In modern machines with a high level of control it is not such a big problem, but with the vintage formula cars it is a nightmare. I still can't have a decent race against them in these cars due to this constant weaving from side to side. It's instant death (virtual).

 

AI on Indy Road Course is extremely quick compared to it's performance on other tracks.

Did a few races in several open wheel classes. AI is very aggressive in the slow parts of track, trying to overtake in those narrow esses and does not have any problems with traction, even when driving high powered turbo cars. They can drive like on rails there.

 

• Car: Opala 86
• Track: Donington National
  
• AI Strength setting: 100
  
• AI Aggression setting: Medium (custom AI)
• Session Distance: 15 laps
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Rain (weather slot 3 of 4)
  
• Session: Race

This is quite a specific one but I'll report it anyway.

The race started dry (all cars on slicks) but the rain began during weather slot 3 (about lap 8). Over the next two laps, all AI cars pitted to change to wets. However, one AI car finished the race having been lapped by some of the field, so I watched the replay to find out what happened.

When it had started raining, this AI car had entered the pits along with the other AI, but it looked like it was going to stop at a pit stall where another AI car was already stopped, so it swerved away and exited the pits without having changing tyres. The next 2 laps it did the same thing - entered the pits, looked like it was going to enter its now vacant pit stall but swerved away and drove out of the pits without having stopped or changed tyres. The rain stopped so I think it eventually decided to stay out on slicks but it made 3 aborted pit stops, so something went wrong with its logic.

 

A general observation: To me it seems the AI behaviour is very track-specific, and I suspect this has perhaps as much to do with the lines as with whatever aggression level and other parameters set in a custom AI file. On some tracks I see some weaving and going side-by-side, while on others they form a line that looks a lot more realistic.

I've been driving the F-Vintage G2s a lot since Spa came out, and I recognise what you're describing with that track, Monza 71 as well, but then I've had some terrific races on Bathurst, Brands, Watkins, Laguna and Silverstone 75, even on Oulton and Cadwell too, using the exact same settings.

 

In Bathurst, I observed that the AI is very aggressive in the esses down the hill. They try to overtake in this narrow section where there is no room for two cars going side by side, forcing me into the wall very often. They also ram each others there like crazy.
They might have too much grip within there physics, what allows them to race that way.

 

Indianapolis Speedway:
FCY all the time, because the AI causes carnage every 5 or 6 laps.

Did two short 25 lap races. One with F_V 12, the other with F_USA Gen 2.
4 FCYs in each race.

 

Try lowering the aggression to like in the 0.3-0.5 range in the custom file and set it no higher than medium in-game. I've lowered defending a bit too for that class, but I don't remember the exact values, and I'm not at my rig atm. Will post later.

 

I've generally just kept damage off as the AI are largely unaffected by it but just tried a race with it set to Max to see if things have improved (Opala 86s at 70s Spa). Several AI cars had major crashes, leaving them visibly hugely damaged but all continued at full speed for the rest of the race (about 10-12 more laps), none making a pitstop. Yet I made a slight side-on glancing blow against a barrier and my suspension is completely broken. It's great that we have the option of such realistic damage levels for slight contact in the game but for now, I'll be keeping it off as it's essentially only the player's car that is affected (at least in tin-tops).

Hopefully the ongoing implementation of the Advanced Mechanical Damage Model across all car classes will eventually pick this us, otherwise it's a bit of a wasted feature (except in online races).

For a long time, I only raced against the AI in dry conditions because there were big discrepancies between player's versus AI's grip level and speed in the wet, but that gradually seems to have been addressed and wet racing against the AI is now pretty good, so fingers crossed for damage.

 

I can confirm it seems like AI don't consider Blue flags at all. They will defend very aggressively and even try to re-overtake instantly.

Also echoing that ai are way to slow mid corner and have too much grip on exit

 

Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with values of the AI file, but with the way they drive in general. You can set aggression to 0 and they will still drive like idiots in this part of the track. They are not that aggressive overall with lower values, but still think that this narrow sector is the place for an attack.

 

• Car: Mini JWC
• Track: Cascavel
• AI Strength setting: 114
  
• AI Aggression setting: Medium
• Session Distance: 30minutes + 1 lap
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry (Real weather)
  
• Session: Race, training and qualifying

AI is generally quite slow around this track, I was easily on pole with a 1.07:high or so. Especially the last corner is taken poorly by the AI, losing maybe up to 0.5 sec. The player is able to leave the track and use the runoff without lap invalidation, the AI however never do this.

 

• Car: Copa Classic B
  
• Track: Brazilia Full
  
• AI Strength setting: 120
  
• AI Aggression setting: Max
• Session Distance: 20minutes
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
  
• Session: Race
• Version: 1.4.3.3

Race with 21 AI cars of the Copa Classic B class.
AI at 120/Max will drive aggressively on the kerbs and sometimes roll, causing pile ups

EDIT: It also happens at 100/High, although seemingly more rarely.

 

AMS 2 will celebrate it's 3rd birthday quite soon and there are still basics of AI behaviour not fixed:

- Attacking/blocking like crazy on their in- and outlap in qualifying
- No obeying to flag rules/ no penalties
- When being overtaken on the inside, they rather go for a crash than letting player pass
- Inability to have a clean overtake, just ramming each others
- Always changing racing line in breaking zones in the very last moment
- Doing strange lateral moves all the time which do not make any sense

 

They're overdue a physical overhaul as well. No amount of refinement will fix the AI fluidity when driving, this oversimplified model just ruins the experience.

 

Yes, they rush into corners, then almost stand still on the appex, but can rocket out of curves, though.

But I already gave up all my hopes concerning the AI. They will drive like that until the day AMS 3 comes out, where we will see the same mess again.

 

Car: Porsche Cayman GT4
Track: Hockenheim (full course)
AI Strength setting: 105
AI Aggression setting: Medium
Session Distance: 15 laps
Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
Session: Race

During this race, I've come into contact with the AI about 3 to 4 times at T2. This is because they seem to move under braking quite frequently when entering this corner. This doesn't happen anywhere else around the track. I would even say the AI is great at Hockenheim, with the exception of this corner.

(If I figure out how, I can add a short video of this, if requested).

 

Car: Cadillac DPi
Track: Silverstone (GP course)
AI Strength setting: 105
AI Aggression setting: Medium
Session Distance: 15 laps
The weather when the issue was observed: Dry
Session: Race

So... This combination isn't great. It kind of sucks tbh. I feel the AI is tuned very poorly to this car track combination.

First of all, AI is way too aggressive. It dives into any gap it sees and has a tendency to go side by side pretty much anywhere, including the maggots section, which is very much a single file.

Secondly, I know the AI is on a different physics set than the player. I get it and see why it was done. With this combination though, the difference between the two physics sets is quite large. All contact with the AI results in a spin for the player. The AI seems to be on rails, which combined with their optimistic attempts for an overtake, results in a nonideal experience for the player. Furthermore, they seem to not know the size of the car, as try to pull in behind the player, but hit the rear end of the player's car instead.

Finally, the lines taken by the AI are simply strange. In most corners and braking zones, the player is vastly superior to the AI. I tried this car for the first time and I could immediately go around the outside on most of the slow corners and out brake the AI effectively everywhere. I did not do any setup work. This difference in grip is then nullified by the insane traction and acceleration the AI seems to have.

I'm going, to be honest here and admit that I stopped trying after 20+ restarts, after effectively rage-quitting.

I took some videos with my phone of some examples and will try to upload them here if I can.

Edit for the videos.:
So the first example was the most annoying for me. The AI (pov) simply cuts the corner and taps me into a spin. This happened several times, but this is the best (or worst depending on your perspective) example.



In this second example, the AI seems to misjudge the size of the car. After an overtake in T3 in tries to slot in behind me but spins me around instead. What is noteworthy though, is the lack of actual contact between the two cars.

AI pov:


My pov: (The lack of actual contact can be seen here)

 

Another example of how bad and unaware of other cars the AI is in AMS2, I move my car all the way to the inside and the AI side swipes me off the track:

Stock Car 2019, 27 opponents, AI at 100/low. I see this type of bs all the time, anybody with eyes and a brain should be able to see me and avoid contact in that situation. I really hope at some point Reiza will include an option to make AI avoid contact with my car at all costs.