What do you think is the most significant reason AMS2 userbase is so small?

I’d be interested in checking out the mod. Can you give me a link please?

 

Still you rabbit on about this braking. Don't make me share my motec data .
Honestly man, you need to stop this ACC bashing as it's something you know nothing about and you are talking falsehoods. ABS does enhance the performance and corner entry of a GT3 car.
No, you cannot get full lateral grip in ACC while on the brake.
If you try this, you risk locking up the inside tyre (depending on the ABS setting).
For the benefit of others and this discussion, please, please stop spreading false statements. I've over 1.5k hours in ACC, and the most difficult thing to do is trail deep into a corner and get off the brake to let the car rotate and "V" off the corner. Anyone who applies brakes up to and past the apex are going to be very slow drivers, I can guarantee that 100%.
The only time I may apply a touch of brakes on an apex is to try and pitch the nose lower and get more rotation, provided I'm below the grip limit on the front. But this is very rare.

 

I have fixed it in game options. Just slide down the Brake Sensitivity from whatever it is to 15(%) or even a little less (10 or 5 % is not weird). The same goes with throttle.

After this, the controls became as precise as would be and the driving physics shown it's best.

I feel that AMS2 is the sim that better understood how racing brakes work. But the problem is that Reiza made some really bad choices about default settings for AMS2. Not only the standard throttle/brake sensitivities, but the camera fixed to the horizon instead with the car (that can be fixed turning on the "legacy mode" and turning down all other slides in this tab) and a few other minor stuf. I can only speculate how many players gave up AMS2 because of don't knowing that they can fix these issues.

 

The only thing you can do is trying to shut other people up.
You are also distorting constantly what I am saying: what I'm saying is that the amount of braking you can carry almost to the apex (not past the apex) in ACC is insane, it is not logical from the law of physics point of view and it seems to be based on a let's say "magical" ABS that seems capable to allow you to almost reach the apex while having a lot of braking going on
I will add that there are streams of Daniel Morad saying exactly the same thing.
Moradness - We don't smash the brakes...

You can see here how low is the trail breaking on a pretty fast lap at Bathurst especially at the 90 degrees corners where things are easier to identify

I will also add that IMHO most of this advantage on exaggeratedly trail braking comes from the extremely high pitch sensitivity that cars in Kunos games products have: weight transfer seems to dominate the entire vehicle dynamics in an abnormal way and that IMO is why you get that big advantage in braking very hard while trying to turn in.

If you call discussing and criticizing based on clear and obvious data between the sim streams and the actual in-car telemetry and based on actual vehicle dynamics knowledge "bashing" then it's your problem. You are really talking like a fanboy who is refusing to look at clear evidence.

 

There a few different outfits that make them , they’re just 3d printed and all of them are overpriced for what they are. But then most things are in sim racing , and especially thrustmaster gear,
Just google T-lcm brake mod .
3d wrap do them among others .

I have some of the apex ones here https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&r...t-lcm-pedals&usg=AOvVaw2bFS9BEXmcsSJJOmM5U-Et

I only had some of the kit, as they were gifted to me by a fellow league member, I probably wouldn’t have them otherwise .

 

I have nothing more to say to you dude. You are anti ACC and are ignoring what I've tried to say to you on multiple occasions.

 

@Gary_S: Totally agree with you. As someone who takes a car with ABS to the track IRL, ACC feels natural under braking, turning, sliding, etc. The physics and tire model on that sim are some of the most accurate I've experienced. iRacing on the other hand doesn't feel like any car I have driven IRL.

 

Same here. You talking about things you don't know as if it was a religion everyone has to adhere without questions and keep changing my words. It's a waste of time. Better to hit "ignore".

 

I haven't driven ir in months.
For me, front end was too vague, ffb too slow and very rubbery, tyres with stupidly tight slip angles and a "steer with throttle" driving model, where applying throttle seemed to reduce the corner radius. I remember experiencing this in the 488 gt3 on ir. It felt very, very odd.
Oh and the braking behaviour/abs....what a joke

 

iRacing's biggest problem is how it "simulates" slip angle or lack there of. IRL the fastest way to drive a car, from my experience, is to drive it with some amount of slip angle based on limit of the tires. The iRacing tire model doesn't accurately simulate slip angle IMHO, once the tires experience any amount of slip in iRacing it's game over. So to be "fast" in iRacing you have to constantly drive under any tire slip, which is not how real life works. Both ACC and AMS2 (depending on the car) simulate slip angle very well. You can set the fastest lap times when you drive in the slip angle of the tires, just like in real life. Don't even get me started about ABS in iRacing, what a joke.

For me ACC has the right tire feel of the tires. When you drive with very grippy R compound tires, you can "multitask" more (eg: turning and braking) in real life. I've gone very deep into turns with the brakes while turning and that's how I set some of the fastest lap times IRL. Traction circle is more elastic in real life, meaning you can do more with a good tire when making it do 2 things than just doing one. The relationship isn't linear like some like to think. This is something one has to experience 1st hand to understand. Whenever I judge how a sim does something accurately, I always base it on my real world racing experience.

Either way I feel blessed we get to drive such amazing simulators like ACC and AMS2 that are truly amazing in terms of physics and tire models. I just wish AMS2 had a more robust multiplayer infrastructure.

 

I’ve been saying this with iracing since 2008(beta). The issue is the devs who make the tracks have to deal with Dave K and his life long chase to make the real sim tire. In the real world I’d take my race cars and find the limit some beyond and sometime with a monetary penalty (crash). But once that’s found we could get there and control it if we got to 101% In iracing the max is about 96% and once it starts going the normal skills to correct it don’t usually apply. The gimmick, slam the brakes and turn left helps stop you, that’s not real. The ir18 is their best car as gas as once it goes you can save it more then not. I think ams2 is a little too sticky, yes you can save it but almost impossible to spin it totally out. Not an ACC guy because I’m not a gt3 guy

 

iRacing and ACC are on the extreme opposites of the spectrum: iracing will not allow you any use of combined lateral and longitudinal grip with or without ABS. The most visible prove of that can be seen in the fact that in many cars people are using BB values that are often below 50% (i.e. braking is prevalent on the rear axle) or just above it and this because the front can't bear lateral load if the brakes are on, so the rears are used as a "rudder" modulating the braking in a sort of unorthodox trail braking that works reversed to normal braking: if you are getting to hot in a corner and understeering out of it you have to add brake force whereas in a normal car is the dual. Typical examples are the (almost defunct now) LMP2s, the Porsche Cups and some others. They have indeed made an attempt at getting a bit of a better type of rubber for the GT3s but not much.
ACC instead allows you almighty braking and steering concurrently and sits at the total opposite side of the spectrum and still feels exaggerated.
RF2, AMS2 and RR instead are somewhat in the middle and in a more healthy position based on my experience, although I think AMS2 is currently allowing less than it could/should based on the tires capabilities only in cars with ABS because currently AMS2 ABS is, let's say, not great in the way it works. It either works too much or too less. Also, often AMS2 comes with a pretty aggressively fwd biased brakes setup, maybe a tad too much.
But these three have generally a combination of healthier BB values and a more moderate allowance for combined grip usage that IMO are closer to reality.

 

I do agree with this line of thinking on tyres...

There's a limit that exists IRL that can be driven around with in terms of slip angle as long as your tyres are within acceptable ranges... But even then, racing tyres IRL can go over 150C and still provide grip to the driver, it's just not as good as it would be around the 90-110C range... But it isn't instant spin or an uncontrollable car when a racing tyre gets that hot like many sims try to represent...

I can't be too positive about ACC as a mixture of the FFB and driving aids give me a lack of feedback to get the most out of braking, though it does have more slip angle tolerance than other sims bar AMS2... I'd call ACC the floaty one from my experiences where as AMS2 feels a lot closer to any track time or pushing cars to limits on the roads, but again a lot of that is down to the aids which force you to control the car via lights not by the feedback... There is however a limit of slip that you can control and overdriving costs you track time if you do spill water out of the bowl you are trying to control... Keep it smooth and time can be found in spades...

AMS2 for me simulates that edge of grip better than anything else I have experienced, even better than early AC when it was similar but not as good... Sure with pristine track conditions it can feel a bit safe with these safe default set ups, and especially when compared to sims that don't simulate slip angles that well, but it still punishes over driving the car...

MP definitely needs to be improved, it's stuck in the dark ages and is really holding back any positive momentum made by improvements in other areas and new content... Even with the warps and bugs in it, it does show me that AMS2 is far from too safe in terms of slip angle with a couple of spins by other drivers being almost guaranteed...

 

I had an account on iRacing in circa 2010 or 2011 (can't remember... was right before they launch their Interlagos version). Back in that time, all the simulation was amazing. If it keep just like that, it would be, today, the best sim racing overall (because current sims are better than that on physics, but iR is better in other stuff).

I gave up because the paywall just made me quit.

After that, I experienced the game in some occasions and my impression is that after 2015 (around that... 2014 to 2016) it's physics became a mess. Even to tune a car, around 2010 it was completely intuitive and the sets were clearly responsive... them it was blew away.

Don't know what they did, but considering the players that I know personally, trust and keep track about what happens there, it was all about a loud niche inside their community that have buzzed in the devs ears until they mess it all.

That is why I don't think that any dev should listen too much (just a little) to their community about how a car should behave. Just go after real pro drivers, mechanics and race engineers opinions. Today, it's not hard to get any of that. Be fair with the reality because even the players that have some real experience can be more limited than they think or don't know how to turn it into knowledge useful to improve a simulator.

Anyway... hope no one get offended... just talking because I don't want that AMS2 go iRacing lol

 

I don't understand when you guys talk about AMS2 being too permissive on tires
Due the amount of spins I am able to perform during a single lap I am starting to ask myself if I am such a bad driver or a really good one able to broke the game physics...

 

It's not permissive. Possibly you are not a bad driver lol

 

@irqxing the dirt side was pretty good but a lot of drivers(less skilled) thought it was too hard and iracing did make a huge change about 2 years ago. The dirt side has become a ghost time on the USAC sprints , midgets and Wingerd cars. That was a great example not to listen. Problem is they don’t really know dirt, kind of like ams2 doesn’t know usa oval or racing.

There was a thread in there that was many pages and about 2-3 months until a dev said” we’re aware and it won’t be in the Dec build but soon will have some fixes lol

That’s been their typical response since inception, don’t know how to deal with the frustrated customers, so they say silent until the building is ready to be burned down. The ones that are the loudest usually are the most compassionate and want to see it work.

The Yaw in the 98 CART car at Indianapolis is wayyyy too much slip angle. I think if you could take a little from each sim and make one we’d have the best. Maybe Rennsport can do such after seeing everyone the last 15 years to learn from

 

I had a little time today and was able to fix most(all?) of my issues with braking and a generally disconnected/floaty feel by deleting the ams 2 folder in documents and then setting up all my equipment again. Kind of weird to me that this was an issue since I’m on a <1 month old clean windows install. I have no idea what issue deleting the ams 2 folder fixes but it should be addressed imo.

 

Speaking of weird things. I’ll get in the garage, have my setup in, go out and I’ll be thinking, what’s happened!? Sometimes the setups goes back to default or just isn’t the setup you selected ?? Also being to a new track, the current setup is for the last track you ran. So I hit load default and the name of the setup still says the same, as you are heading back to the drive menu it changes to default but it doesn’t haha. So I have to make a little change to that default track setup and save it so it sticks? Wtf is that. Anyway the rant for the night is over

 

I find this whole car set up/controller issue to be a big reason so many have this floaty and odd feeling with AMS2...

I've had the set up bug more times than I can remember... It's a very game breaking bug and probably is as big of a reason that so many have negative opinions on AMS2 as the archaic MP is...

Countless times I've had to reset to default and go back to my previous set up the manual way... Saving set ups seems useless as you have to delete them after every major build this year because they clash with the new physics... Basically anytime the physics were touched in any way... Even just adding a low downforce version of a car seems to have an effect on the high downforce version that requires a reset to defaults when switching between the different models by going to another track...

Then there's the endless forum posts here stating that others have had to verify their game or even delete the entire folders where the controller files are or the set up folder and let the game re-download the original files for it to work as intended...