To Reiza: What physics do you actually want?

Maybe it would be a lot better to describe the LSD Diff as closed instead of locked for the sake of this argument.

So the diff is either closed or open.
The strength of how closed or open depending on the clutches used and preload and other adjustable features.

 

Fine. A bit more and i will find out you opened this thread, not me...

So i have a better question, who calls the shots physics wise? Who has the final say? Who decides if something is good and not good? How is the process done?

In games which have consistent physics accross the board, and accross builds (kunos, sector3, etc) there is ONE person whose vision is the one that is put into the cars.

Who is doing that here? Nobody? You guys divide the cars in parts? Or divide the cars amongst yourselves? Who inputed the values for the lotus 98 for example? I suppose you copied the tires from all Gen etc cars. Who did those? Who was researching the data for the cars?

I think if we would know this, at least we would know a bit more of how this process happens, and how these cars come to be.

 

Now now, dont get upset. I didnt attack you on that post, did i? No need to attack me.

If people liked my posts, it's because people agree with me that there is a problem. If the fact that there are people who agree with me on that irritates you, thats well, not my problem, pun intended

As for your considerations about my person, or skills, or knowledge, i have nothing to prove. Nor do i feel like i do. All my points were presented clearly.

But as it seems, you seem too personally affected by this. Maybe you should yourself take a step back. After all, there are more people involved in the physics, no? I guess someone else can come here and tell us about it.

 

After several walls of text I still can’t see a single graph with individual tire forces…

@steelreserv can you output vertical, longitudinal and lateral force of each tire from the sim engine?

Yes or no (simple question with simple answer).

If yes, please provide graphs with decent resolution.

This would explain MUCH more than any discussion.

Thanks.

 

I think steelreserv has already shared much more information than he needed to or is obliged to in this thread. He has taken a lot of time out to explain his lot. Richard also sounds like he knows his stuff, you both do, it is all way above my head.

I am glad we have both a passionate team working on this title and passionate end users as well. We all want the same outcome, a feature rich and realistic racing simulator. And I am sure that that is what we will end up with once Reiza have finished polishing it.

Reiza have previously said something along the lines of the main physics are sorted but fine tuning will continue to go on and that if there are any major breakthroughs that show physics flaws they will be addressed.

I am more than happy to say that AMS2 is my number 1 sim and the one that I have the most hours on ever.

I cannot see that changing, keep up the good work Reiza, a majority of us have faith in you and appreciate the time, effort, dedication and variety you are giving us.

 

Of all the things I wanted to address I chose this. This is not a universal truth, because I have personally disagreed with him many times. And it’s not limited to me. To be fair it’s easier to accept criticism from a team mate since you’ve already decided to trust them earlier and gotten to know them a bit. Is it always easy to take in criticism? Of course not.

Even so whenever you can prove something and/or build a case he’ll review it and rethink it with time. Like everyone else. When you have a million moving parts based on what you think is the truth after research and analysis, you can’t do anything with shallow feedback. It has to be specific and come with evidence/proof. This is also a requirement in team work in general, because you can’t just be stubborn and dominant about your position until your team mate simply gives in.

For example what steelreserv has done with car physics in AMS2 was effectively a big criticism of tires and setups. That’s making it sound more dramatic than it was at the time, but for it to happen did require Renato to accept criticism.

This really has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion so carry on.

 

Axle load and lateral accelerations are a small part of the picture.

I would like to see single tire forces as we can in most of the other sims (and can’t understand how a picture of a graph would break any NDA).

 

I'm not so sure it's the traction control that's "wrong". It might also be a case of the rear being too eager to lose grip when turning under acceleration: In this situation, the weight should be more towards the back of the car, and the tires that actually do the turning are the front tires, so you would expect the rears to "overpower" them, leading to understeer. In AMS2, more often than not, the opposite happens: The rears begin to slip while the front keeps turning, leading to spins you wouldn't expect.

Maybe it's not so much a case of the rear losing lateral grip too early, but of the fronts having too much of an iron grip into the track when turning.

Anyway, I now had a chance to access my PC and made a comparison video around Hockenheim. I set the car up for more understeer than default and lowered traction control a bit, but still it activated at the quick T6 (despite the fact that the bump that was there in 2002 is gone). I hope the video shows what I mean: It's not a "large" issue in that it seems very excessive when looking on it from the outside, but it's noticeable especially on the exit of T8, that the car is a bit too prone to spinning the rears up when turning. As you see at the hairpin, it's comparatively tame when having a straight exit.

You should also note that my car is set up for understeer (!) compared to the default, and Michael's car obviously isn't, which you can see at the entrance of the Motodrom. But still, it's my car that keeps spinning up the rear tires on curved exits.

The real life lap time was a 15.0, mine was a 14.9, but my lap was driven from an absolutely cold start, with no practice whatsoever, so maybe you could make a case that I had a little too much front bite in the quick corners, too (but the time difference really is very good in this case in general).

The original lap by Michael Schumacher is put first for every corner, because the sim is trying to replicate real life, so it's to show the benchmark and then compare.

Video should be ready in 5 minutes.

 

He can’t show a video from the development because they have certain tools which can’t be shown

 

This is what has yielded results in the past, graphs and video as before with respect to diff, transmission, holes in throttle response, lack of straightline wheelspin, retro drivability, all the dougnout diff stuff /ai examples, list is endless.
No question people are having problems, demonstration in detail is lacking here, esp video of snap's weaving v8 'cant touch throttle on corners' etc.

 

i noted this type of behaviour a long time ago when i tried ams2 for the first time since early access, i made a thread back then, maybe the title is a little click baity but it's similar to what you mention the one thing that would fix every car in ams2

 

I don’t know if this helps, but I noticed the same thing you describe, but with the Nissan GT3. I made a video reviewing the car and I noticed this very well. I used the defualt setup

 

The Nissan responds well to reducing the amount of clutches and small increase in power lock, as do a lot of cars , what you lose in ultimate traction, you gain in confidence and being able to get on the power early and carrying that momentum down the the straights .

 

one thing i noticed which may be just me but the FFB in this games give you a good feeling for what the rear of the car is doing but the front tyres you have zero feel, it feels like the front is just sliding over the tarmac, surely the fronts should feel a connection to the road as they are the ones connected to the steering wheel, i feel raceroom has this nailed when comparing to my real track day time

 

Believe if you read a little before this page in the thread that question has been answered. Believe Renato thought the FFB is to front end dependent