To Reiza: What physics do you actually want?

Ahh hmm

ByTheWay: Take it humorous - but the AMS2 version is pretty obvious some kind of brutal zigzak car

 

It is painful to hear the "the cars rotate around a center point like a top" statement. It is called polar moment of inertia and all physical objects have it. Hence "rotating the car in the corner" as drivers talk about doing. It is the car designers job to build a car with a friendly balance of weight and COG in a somewhat forgiving manner under the constraints given. It is the tire designers job to build a tire that can control those aspects of the car in a somewhat forgiving manner under similar constraints. It is the drivers job to use his skills and tools, ie car setup, throttle and brake balance etc. to get the car to do what he wants it to do. The polar moments of a Porsche 911 and a VW polo are quite different and the drivers approach to each will be different. The same goes for any sim that tries to emulate these physical principles for our entertainment. None of them are perfect but all can be fun and coping with each ones strengths and weaknesses is what it is all about.

 

I must admit I have a very contradictory relationsship to Reizas version of the L98T.
Love and hate relationship

On the one side it is extremely satisfying when you nail a close to perfect (or at least fast) lap on a track.
But on the other side the car does switch from side to side when the turbo cuts in a way that I believe is too exaggered compared to RL.
But as said its pretty satisfying and challenging when you feel you are (somewhat) on top of this car bomb - temporarily.

ByTheWay: But something I have commented on before is that there must be something wrong with the physics or tire model of this car because in some corners the car midcorner suddenly by itself stops the correct lift off oversteer rotation and begin to UNDERsteer.
It feels completely wrong when you know that you are still off throttle so the engine brake should still via the lifting off effect keep the rotation - but the car suddenly think otherwise.

 

My friend, I ask this in the friendliest manner possible. Why does each of your posts have ByTheWay. Please, I must know, I cannot sit in ignorance any longer.

 

You are welcome.
Its pretty simple.
Almost allways when I have commented something I have or get some kind of AfterThought.
So instead using this headline it has become a kind of habit "trademark" to use ByTheWay instead.
I have seen a few people who use comment on this phrase because they in fact disagree with something in my comment but are unable to use arguments against it.

ByTheWay: I have seen others using phrases like Sincerely Yours or Yours Sincerely as a their "trademark" in all their comments. Hehe just check the Raceroom forum.
But such kind fake "I-care-for-you" gets me to puke.

 

Yes of course. But PCars2 is notorious for cars that seem to have a moment of inertia that is barely a fraction of the real car, leading to a bizarrely loose sensation on corner entry. No other sim (certainly not AMS2) I have ever tried has such strange over-rotation, not even in go-karts.

 

If anything, its AMS2 that has the overrotation, as a lot of people complained here, but the worse part is that its on exit, when you dont want it.

Race cars should be lose on corner entry. Thats what makes them turn fast. The last thing a real driver wants is to turn the wheel and the car is not going where he wants, when he wants.

 

No car is "loose" they way PCars2 cars are loose. Stop gaslighting people. I am done with you. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

What do you mean by over-rotation? I want to try and replicate it so please explain what you feel and with what and where?

 

In pCARS2, looking at the wheel is enough to make almost every car go 360°. Not sure whether that is the first thing a real driver wants.

Funnily enough, this is not an issue with the pad because of the built-in stability control they devised for this. PC2 is the only sim that drives better with pad than with a wheel.

 

The "normal" tires in PCars2 are way too grippy for almost every car, and do indeed cause this. Thats why i mentioned only the combos i did.

Edit: I should add that there are obviously degrees of this, but the problem with AMS2 is that you can only turn the car whenever you slow down enough, because many cars are riddled with understeer on entry.

 

After watching this video I wonder if the throttle model of AMS2 is the same as AMS1.
If it is it might explain some differences between some sim titles exiting the corners.

 

This is interesting. I thought many times why cars in AMS2 has this exit. I thought it's real so I didn't care but it's like I need to straight the wheel a bit sooner than in other games. Maybe it's real?

 

Well i think that is way too exagerated, and i explained why in this thread. So no, i dont think thats real or desireable.

 

After watching this video last night I turned down throttle sensitivity just a bit to help on corner exit's and so far I like it. Still need more time testing a few different sensitivities though.

 

Yes it's the same approach as Niels explains on the video. It's indeed subject to the same disclaimer/warning coming from most other sims, because as you can see there's a lot more torque at partial throttle application at lower engine RPM.

TL;DW; for others: If you're used to applying say 50% at lower engine RPM to get going coming from another sim with the linear torque scaling approach then it's going to be too much. But on the other hand once you get used to the downsloping nature of torque at partial throttle application it automatically lowers torque if the RPM jumps due to wheel slip. It's quite a fundamental difference, not to be confused with throttle input sensitivity and curve due to the RPM dependency.

I recommend watching the video to get the full picture from Niels .

For sure throttle sensitivity tweaks can help maximise fine control of initial throttle application which becomes very important with this model. That part depends on you and your hardware so there's no universal answer.

 

A thought-provoking quote from Niels Heusinkveld in that video shared above (timestamp 20m 24s):

 

Maybe we should get to control TC cut and the detection. If that doesn't help then maybe it needs some remodelling

 

Thanks for it, I never thought about it could be problematic from physics perspective.

 

Could a possible imbalance between lateral and longitudinal tire grip be the cause of this? I think this was discussed before.