To Reiza: What physics do you actually want?

You can try. Maybe it will for you, but then you lose control over the top end of the pedal range. I would rather just learn to drive the cars at the natural 50 sensitivity.

 

Yes, it's more or less the same that I saw. I guess that the complaints on both AMS2 and PC2 regarding "cars rotating like a top on its center" are off the mark then? It has always been something that I felt, but never thought it was actually wrong though.

 

While I agree, and I'm working on lerning that, I still think there are some cars that have overreactive rear ends. I'm not talking about HP monsters like the Brabham BT52, Lotus 98T or the Copa Trucks, but lower powered cars like for example the Omega Stock Car and The BMW 2002.

That being said, parts of this thread, but mostly Niels' videos on throttle mapping convinced me that it's not a fault in the overall physics or throttle model of AMS2 but that it's just different to what I'm used to, but still that certain cars need a bit of massaging and/or maybe tamer stock setups.

 

I dont think this is really an argument against lowering the "sensitivity" to get more finecontrol.
Because the situation where finecontrol of throttle is urgently needed is in the beginning of the movement up to about half throttle. The rest or rather top of the movement is only used when you floor the throttle. IE when you are completely indifferent about any finecontrol.

ByTheWay: Be aware that the "sensitivity" setting does instead of changing the sensitivity alter the law governing the relation between throttle input (your pedals) and the throttle outcome in the virtual car.

 

I completely agree with you, maybe then it makes sense to specify all the cars that have too happy rear end? Maybe even make a list of cars with similar behavior? I would like to add a Caterham 620R to it, which skids even in 4th gear, the onboard looks much calmer with it.

 

Just a question, has somebody compared the setups from PC2 to AMS2 to try and get similar results?

 

Ithought you were ignoring me?

And no, the throttle response has nothing to do with the AMS2 problem, if it did, the wheels would just spin in the same place, the rear wouldnt just kick up sideways.

 

Yes, that "cars rotating around the center pivot" thing is thrown around way too much in simracing.

You see, real cars do rotate around their center all the time at the limit. What people who never drove a car in anger on a track don't understand, is that you need to reach the limit of the tire grip to get to this state. Meaning, you have to really stretch the slip angles of the rear tires to their limit, at which point this behaviour is shown, and is even desirable to get the cars around corners quicker.

The ideal fastest state of a car around a corner is on the limit, with close to zero steering input. Notice how that is what happens in ovals with indycars, they have only minute inputs on the wheel, and the car is itself describing this wide arc around the corner. This is much more prevalent in older cars, because grip and road holding were substancially less, so keeping the car in this state was crucial for laptimes.

In reality a well balanced purppose built race car should never be able to reach the point of terminal understeer MID CORNER, as such, when the car is already settled, and turning, there should never exist the point when the front is just washing out, and no matter what you do, the front stays unresponsive. You should be able to provoke this, but never be "stuck" in this state, like so many simracers seem to believe.

Most race cars are rear limited, meaning its the rear grip limit that governs how quick they can go around corners, not the front.

 

the correct thing is to do all the physics (from scratch) and not try to fix the physics of PCars 2.

 

Lol, Please don't take this too offensively but that was an atrocious attempt at a lap.

 

It's not my lap. And it was the world record...

 

My apologies. That would explain why it looks so ridiculous. Driving like a bat out of hell, with full boost, no regard for the car, the engine, the tires or life looks sort of cartoonish.

 

It does, but that works with AMS2 right now, and that is one of the problems.

 

it doesn’t work , you blow the engine in no time. thankfully we don’t have to pay for it or explain to the team owner that we were just trying to get a world record even though we have already written other chassis off 3 times in the last hour .
it’s a Time trial test in fictional environment…

 

Yes, i am sure the real lotus 98T could make the radillon flatout at 330kmh, and Senna was just too scared to do it, am i right? Please...

 

To the OP's original question, I would venture to guess that Reiza would answer, yes, they do actually want the physics they've now got. Yes there have been many changes along the way, and maybe not every car is as dialed in as they would like yet (the 98T might be one of those), but I would think they are pretty happy with where things are at right now. I personally enjoy driving almost anything with a stick shift with manual clutch, and Reiza excels in this department IMO. But Reiza can't force people to use a shifter and clutch pedal for those vehicles. When I see videos like the WR 98T/Spa one, it's just so obviously untrue to real life that I can happily ignore it. I just had an absolute blast taking the Ultima GTR around Laguna Seca. I did need to dial back the diff settings to eliminate some pretty severe oversteer on throttle, to get it to behave the way I wanted. I have no idea what would be an 'accurate' diff setting for this car IRL, but I agree that there may be a case for Reiza needing to revise some of their default setups.

 

No one's gonna argue that such a feat is ridiculous. But it is completely apt to observe that TT results aren't applicable almost at all to IRL, thanks to the perfect track conditions, perfect car conditions, no wear, etc. etc.
As well as the fear factor. You scoff at it but how regularly do you or all other sim racers lug cars around without ever thinking about what your engineers are gonna say over the next week? The answer's never, 'cause none of us do.
Even Senna had a life to be worried about losing, all the greats did. Who knows, maybe I'll go set a faster wet Nurb time than Jackie Stewart did. Does that mean the Vintage Gen 2s are completely busted? Clearly the man felt no fear, yet I whirled this little doo-hicky around like it was paper in the wind!

I don't disagree that the time is ridiculous, and that there are absolutely avenues for improvement with the car. But just 'cause something is wrong doesn't mean what you're saying is right. There can indeed be problems with the cars in AMS2 that don't line up with your rather pompous (and moreover, contentious) allegations.

 

Well then, it doesn't matter what you think of my "allegations". Renato already replied here, he said he himself is not totally happy with the 98T (among others) and that they will work on it, so i guess that answers you, and others who now seem to come here and try to rehash the last 28 pages of conversation, just because you didn't like that i somehow "dared" to question things.

I was perfectly satisfied with their answer (reiza) for now, so i dont see the need to come and argue the point yet again.

The cold hard truth is that that lap is a perfect example that AMS2 in some cars is very far from being a good representation of the real machinery, and this needs some addressing.

 

Say it ain't so! This thread was so much cheaper than a Netflix subscription.

 

Oh don't worry, provided how the next update to those cars goes, stand by for season 2