Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

I am only commenting on this one because it also affects online play with humans.

Although it was dumb for the AI Chevette to find itself half off the track, whether it was coming up behind you (because you were too slow), or, you were passing it because it was too slow (being half on the grass), you should not turn towards the edge of the track and squeeze the opponent into the guard rail, or, find yourself so close to the opponent that a small steering correction from them results in contact with you. As a result, you spun yourself out of contention when the rear of your car contacted the front of the AI Chevette.

Racing is about give and take. The opponent may decide to slow if it/he sees you squeezing, but it could just as easily result in a Hamilton-Rosberg both vehicles are out of the race scenario. Neither the AI nor any of the rest of us are at the skill level of a Hamilton or Rosberg, so when an opponent does something dumb (a constant affair in most online lobbies, including the move you are showing in the screen shot), the best policy if you want to survive is to be cautious and give some extra room to others even when they are "in the wrong."

I doubt an incident would have occurred had you left a full car's width plus a small buffer to your right and focused on maintaining your own maximum speed and control. In the case of a maniac driving with two wheels off the track, the appropriate amount of space is more like about a lane and a half, since the maniac can easily lose control of their vehicle if trying to brake or steer.

 

Car/class: Mitsubishi Lancer Cup
Track: Guapore
Other applicable settings: Custom championship. Real weather. Race date 07/09/2021, 14:00. Quali at 14:00. Quali 15 minutes, race 40 minutes.
Report: Significant difference in AI performance between dry and wet. AI skill 113 + max aggression was a good level in quali with no rain and a moist track (I was P10 out of 18), but the same AI settings in a rainy race with a soaked track made the AI 3-5 seconds slower than me per lap. Observation based on 15 minutes of qualifying without rain and 20 minutes of race with rain.

I restarted the race with 118 AI skill. Finished first with a 10-second gap without pushing much and managing to accrue 13 points of front aero damage on the way.

As a sidenote, the AI started the quali (no rain, moist track) on wet tyres and pitted after either one lap or just the outlap. This gave the player an advantage, albeit a minor one because of the length of the quali session.

 

Had a similar issue with the Formula Trainer advanced in Gateway, but the issue was not the AI, but the grip I had was too high for the conditions, only lost 6 seconds from my dry times to the soaked (no huge puddles) track. The computer lost about 13 to 15 seconds, which is more realistic.
How many seconds where you slower? I could actually feel a lot of grip on the wet, it was strange, feelt a lot like PC2 where you seem to have the same grip on the wet and are just a little slower. This has been the only car so far that felt like that In my case.

 

Marc, you are right when you say that nothing would have happened if I had left room for the car.

But it was a race. In the race, positions are defended, not by leaving the door wide open for the opponent. Besides, the fastest way to get through a corner is to hit the apex perfectly.
When I look at races in reality, that's standard racing practice.
And that's what I tried to do. I was in front. The corner was mine. I didn't make any abrupt changes in direction, I stayed constantly on my line.
If AI is in front I respect this by not trying to overtake next to the track and not to hit emerging obstacles which throw me on other cars.
I have experienced this a dozen times. AI is not acting correctly here.

 

There are two issues:

1) There are places where the AI don't "see" obstacles soon enough or where they don't respect the normal edge of the track well enough. If this is one of those, please report it in the normal place(s).

2) The attitude of "the corner was mine" is exactly what will end in tears the vast majority of the time. That attitude is not wanted in amateur racing, because it results in collisions. It is not wanted in online racing, because it turns what it is already precarious due to the technology (pings, warping, etc.) into a frustrating waste of time for all involved. Although no harm is done to anyone but yourself when racing the AI, it is not a great pattern to get into if you ever want to interact with humans in online or real life racing.

The simple reality is that the AI technology we have available to us today works well when the human is closely matched in speed to the AI vehicles. As soon as there is a speed discrepancy or a skill discrepancy, bad things start happening. The AI in AMS 2 are actually hyper-sensitive to avoiding the human player--to an unrealistic (but ultimately helpful) degree. If you get hit by an AI it is either because it's a bad spot on the track for the AI (some lines or obstacles not working properly) or because either you or the AI is travelling out of a normal range of speed for that section of the track. Occasionally this can be the AI when they have seemingly more grip in or out of a corner or under braking, but 90% of the time it is us, the human, who can't drive competently enough.

I can't tell you how many times I have cursed the AI only to later realize I am the one who isn't driving optimally on a certain corner or, more likely, I haven't learned the limits of the car properly. If it was real life, I would spend a few hours in a private test session before ever daring to go out on a track at racing speed with other (expensive and fragile) race cars and people. But because it's a game/sim, I can throw on my usual 20 AI and jump right in while learning more quickly because there is no health or financial consequences to my inevitable failures.

If you want to race properly, in real life and therefore trying to replicate the same in the sim, you will start adopting the "leave enough room even when the opponent is a &^%$" policy sooner rather than later. It will also get rid of many frustrations when dicing with the not perfect AI in any sim we like to enjoy and it will bring you respect online if you ever want to join a league.

 

Good question. Unfortunately I don't remember.
I'd have to test it again. Will post here if I end up doing it.

 

I've actually wished in the past that they were a tiny bit less eager to get out of the player's way. It lets me get away with mistakes and driving that I should be mildly punished for and allows me to bully my way into places where I have no right to be (most of the time by accident when it happens).

 

What you write may be right but also is very idealistic.
I only think of the players who are not represented in the forum and do not read your explanation.
Some will eventually have enough and play another sim. Of the ones I use, only AMS2 currently has this problem. So why shouldn't Reiza be able to improve this behavior.
I have already reported some combinations, sometimes I am just annoyed when once again an attempt to run a race cleanly fails due to this error.
No offense, I just want AMS2 to be better.

 

The AI in AMS 2 cuts corners like crazy in order to avoid being overtaken instead of stepping back. And then, they come back to track just as if they were alone.
A good example is Imola 2001, where they act like that in the chicanes of Tamburello and Villeneuve. They can do so because they have plenty of grip even on slicks when rushing over grass.

 

True, but when it was the opposite and they were hitting us more often than was plausible, realistic or desired, it was worse

 

The AI in AMS 2 is not the only one that has issues, including in the exact scenario you presented.

And the point of my post wasn't to defend AMS 2 AI, it was to point out that your approach won't work in online sim racing or in real life racing. If it works in some other sim, well then, enough said.

 

I didn't say the AI works flawlessly in other sims and I didn't say you were defending AMS2.
With my posts I wasn't referring to online racing, I was referring to racing with the AI.
I don't race online or irl. So your point doesn't apply to me. All of my posts are abou racing AI. I don't need lessons for online or irl.
In fact I don't have problems in ACC, RR or rf2 in the numbers I have in AMS2.
But I agree, enough said.

 

Daytona Nascar and Sportscar Course:

AI is way too aggressive when entering the chicane(s) in the bend. They seem to have endless grip, break when already being in the chicane and go for rear of car in front. Very often, they produce a huge pileup that way, especially with open wheel cars when they hang in each others tyres.
In turn one, the sharp lefthander, they also force their way through and rather crash into the wall than step back.

 

• Car/Track: CART 1998, Gateway
• AI Strength: 120%
• Corner: all of them
• AI Aggression: High
• Session Distance: 85 laps
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
• Player Tyre: Slick
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Race
  AI is doing these corners too safely. Slowing down to much in turn 2 and doing turns 3 and 4 too slow. Usually I'm almost 1s faster per lap.
  • Car/Track: CART 1998, Watkins Glen
  • AI Strength: 100%
  • Corner: mainly Turn 1
  • AI Aggression: High
  • Session Distance: 27laps
  • Weather when the issue was observed: Wet
  • Player Tyre: Wet
  • Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Race
    AI is very prone to make mistakes on wet circuit especially on turn 1. During 27 lap race 10 drivers out of 25 has retired. Therefore in that conditions they are really slow. However as circuit is drying up, thier pace is much more respectable.

 

Track: Kansai GP
Car: Any
Report:
In the entry of Degner corner 1, AI tries to overtake by cutting corner and driving over the grass quite often.
In Spoon corner, they heavily brake/slow down at the exit, where they should already accelerate down the hill. Feels like being braketested.

 

• Car/Track: CART 1998 Speedway. Daytona Oval, Indy Oval
• AI Strength: Doesn't matter
• Corner: all of them
• AI Aggression: High
• Session Distance: doesn't matter
• Weather when the issue was observed: Dry
• Player Tyre: Slick
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Any
  AI seems to not adjust car setup to the track and uses the default one. It's especially visible in 1998 cars, as they have short gearing and reaches low top speed. AI reaches the redline at 380 km/h, where you can drive with right gearbox over 400 km/h. The issue is not as visible gen 1 and gen 3 cars (1995, 2000), as default setup has longer gearbox

 

Formula Classic G2 @Donington

IA cars don't overtake slower ones, creating some "train" on the track
and I notice compenetration, just like they are ghost cars, instead collision, especially in the first corner

 

Question @Renato Simioni
Does it make sense to post AI issues with mods? I'd assume not but just want an official clarification.

 

This constantly forcing their way back to racing line, no matter if there is another AI, is a pain in many corners. In the video below you see a short example. I was wondering why the AI was far behind me all over sudden. In the replay I could see the reason. One AI rammed another and then there was a huge pileup.

 

Turn 3 at Road America seems to be problematic at the moment. Had a pileup there with several cars with the new Indycar mod but thought it might be down to it being a mod. Corkscrew at Laguna Seca is another problematic spot.