Automobilista 2 V1.4 Force Feedback Overview & Recommendations

Marush on pg6 is recommeding this for CSW 2.5. Gonna try that 1st before getting into custom.

Gain: 60 - 70
LFB: 5 - 10
FX: 50
Damping: 50
Dri off in the Fanatec driversettings
Is a good start

Either if you don't like damping much cause it feels too much on/off
Gain: 60 - 70
LFB: 5 - 10
FX: 50
Damping: 0
Dri -2 in the Fanatec driversettings


My Damping was 0 becuase I had Dri -2 in drivers.
Gonna try the ingame damping and set driver to 0, see what this "on / off" he's talking about is.

 

Hello, I have a question for how GAIN works and scale.

I have a 15 nm wheel (simagic Alpha), if I set on control panel 100% forces, the wheel can output the range of 0-15 nm. Well, if I set to 80% for example, I have a range of 0-12 nm.

I read on the description that GAIN is agnostic for wheel and forces. Well, what I see, is if i set 100% forces in control panel and 50% GAIN ingame, i have heavy forces on the wheel. On the reverse, 50% control panel, 100% GAIN the output is weaker and less detailed. It has sense to me, because the forces range is set on driver side always.

So, why 30-40 GAIN for high forces wheel? It's not the calculation of 100% forces (15nm) multiplied by the gain. Is a value that I can't infer. What I can see is that you devs do trial and error, and see how base steering forces are, and lower or raise the gain to get a realistic or manageable steering wheel.

If all of this are mathematically calculated, why simply don't allow to set a range nm like in rfactor or iracing to calculate the total output and then raise it to 100% if i want real outputs adjusted by my wheel or lower if I want a lighter forces, but, having 30-40 value for realistic feedback doesn't have sense to me, like I'm setting an arbitrary value.

I'm asking just for knowledge, Im set it to 40 and I feel right, but I thinking about it and how it is like a song with unknown volume trying from the speaker arbitrarily up and down the volume to hear the instruments correctly.

 

Comlete loss of FFB:
Sorry for bothering you with this old topic, but I still suffer from the phenomenon that I all over sudden lose FFB when driving.

I have two copies of AMS 2, on the older PC with a Thrustmaster TS-XW, on the other with a Fanatec DD 2.
Very often, the FFB is gone from one moment to the other. Has nothing to do with the settings, happens with strong and soft FFB. Also no difference between custom FFB or the default one.

Sometimes, I can race for hours without any issue, next time, FFB is gone just after a few laps.
None of the bases gets hot. I also have no problem with other titles (AC, Raceroom, RF2). It only happens in AMS 2. I gotta restart the game, then it works again. But this problem keeps me from multiplayer races, because I am afraid that this issue occurs when I am fighting with another car and ram it out of fright when FFB is gone all over sudden.

Any hints?

 

I have a Thrustmaster TX belt motor....I believe it's under 4nm which is considered a low torque base.

Should I use zero/low dampening or the suggested 50?

 

Hi! With your base, I would set the damping to a rather low level in the defaults. High dampening takes away a lot of FFB detail from your base. Additionally, I would increase in-game LFB. This will sharpen your center and boost weak signals a bit. In the end your feeling decides

 

TX wheel here too. Agree with lowering damping around zero, using v50 (standard) since the belt driven option appear too weak to my taste.

My LFB setting is also close to zero (or under 5) since it more disturb than anything.

 

Good morning! Yes I agree. Because of the V50 I can help you in the Custom Force thread, it's no problem to increase the strength. This is the default thread

 

On page 306 in the custom thread you will find my latest file for belt bases of 2-5Nm

 

Thank you!
I tried fiddling around the default again but to no luck, I tried your file and it was great with the couple of cars I tested.
Much better connection with the track, load under braking and lateral/slip feel.

Cheers

 

can we get less vibration going on please with the default profile, even with fx on 0 all you can feel is constant vibrations, no steering wheel feels like that irl, power steering is relatively smooth irl

 

Any starting point settings for a Logitech Pro DD ?

 

Anyone experiencing klonk noise and awful feel around the wheel center? I am using Logi DD atm, with 0 fx and 0 ingame damping. I tried set damping to 50 but the klonk is still there. It was very smooth before.... I am not using trueforce as well

 

Yes, same experience here. Logitech DD pro and a very anoying klonk has appeared yesterday with the update. I tried to reconfigure but with no success.

 

Minforce?

 

Gain 60, everything else at 0 (for testing), with default, default + and Custom. The clunk is still here. Rf2 and Raceroom ffb are good (I've just tested them). Tried new configs with custom wheel and logitech pro dd wheel with no success. I am going to chek files integrity and maybe reinstall...

 

Raise low force until the clunk disapears

 

Ok, I reverted to official release, supressed the mods and reinstalled. I found the culprit. It's the damping. Any damping other than zero will bring up the clonk (default +), no matter the Lfb setting. I switched to custom (Theodore Schultz). It seems to work for now.

 

Logitech dd pro. I have clunking even with 0-damping. It feels terrible.

 

The Automobilista 2 V1.5.3 FFB Guide by John B. Ellis



The purpose of this guide is to provide a clear methodology for determining optimal force feedback settings, for any wheel base, using Reiza’s set of inter-related, force feedback profiles in AMS2 V1.5. The diagram entitled “AMS2 V1.5 FFB: Reiza FFB Profiles” visually encapsulates what was provided in Reiza’s official thread about V1.4 FFB Recommendations by @Domagoj Lovric, along with information derived from more recent V1.5 and V1.5.3 updates. The flowchart demonstrates how Reiza's three distinct, in-game FFB profiles may be deployed in a hierarchical, progressive manner to help understand, obtain, and fine tune, individual FFB settings.

The Methodology

1) Select the Reiza Custom (Basic) profile in order to activate the "barebones steering torque” model derived from the Automobilista’s PURE FFB profile. The following table displays how the FFB profiles created for AMS2 were influenced by those developed for Automobilista.




In his initial post about V1.4, Domagoj includes recommended software settings for several wheel bases (summarized in the “Recommended FFB Wheel Base Settings” table). Notably, that table also lists the exact Fanatec DD2 Podium settings used by @Coanda to standardize FFB output across all vehicles in AMS2 V1.5.

Any vehicle in AMS2 ought to be drivable, and even raceable at the limit, lap after lap, using nothing more than the Basic FFB profile tuned with a sensible Gain setting and (if required) LFB value. A driver might appreciate the additional effects simulated by the Default & Default+ profiles (especially those users with higher-end gear, sim-rigs, etc.) but the sim’s kingpin-axis suspension model, tire noises, and visual cues are sufficient and necessary for driving--and Reiza’s Basic model serves as the foundation for everything that follows. Consequently, simracers who initially ignore the Basic profile may find it more difficult to determine their best Default or Default+ FFB settings. Note that both FX and Damping sliders are explicitly designed to have no intended effect when the Basic FFB profile is selected; regardless, both FX and Damping should be set to 0 when initially exploring and developing a feel for the Basic model.

2) Using the Basic FFB profile, find the best Gain and (if necessary) LFB settings for your wheel. At this point, FX and Damping should be set to 0. Although the Wheel Base table lists recommended Gain and LFB settings for various hardware, a synthesis of the data yields a simple array of initial FFB settings:



Setting Low Force Boost (LFB)

In most cases, LFB should be viewed as a "set it and forget it" item; that is, certain wheel bases may benefit greatly from it, while others hardly require LFB, if at all. At one end of the spectrum, the Logitech G25 is the weakest wheel base officially tuned for AMS2 (LFB 60). At the other end, @Coanda set LFB to only 2 when using a Fanatec Podium DD2 to tune FFB for all V1.5 cars. In order to better visualize exactly what LFB is intended to accomplish, here is the original LFB graph as provided for Automobilista:


Source

Essentially, with LFB set to 60, the weakest 20% - 30% of forces generated by the sim are compressed within the initial 10% - 12% of wheel base force output (i.e., to help "the forces come in earlier"), which allows a lower-strength wheel base to operate within a higher effective range of its output. In most cases, users should simply utilize Reiza’s recommended LFB values, subsequently modifying overall Gain strength as needed. If, after substantial testing, recommended LFB values feel overly intrusive or unconvincing, then lower LFB values (including LFB 0) can be trialed before settling on a final value to be held constant thereafter.

Setting Gain

Unlike most "one-and-done" FFB settings in AMS2, Gain is designed to be adjusted, as needed, to optimize FFB dynamic range and minimize clipping in order to maintain the optimal FFB experience. The HUD displays dynamic FFB clipping values in red, and per-vehicle Gain adjustments can be made, either up or down, while driving in the sim. These FFB Gain Increase and FFB Gain Decrease buttons can be assigned under the “Vehicle” subsection (scroll down to it) when configuring a controller in AMS2 to permit real-time FFB adjustments.

After LFB is set, test out a selection of different cars and tracks to help adjust Gain values to produce a natural centering force and tire feel without undue clipping. Keep in mind that changes to suspension settings within the Advanced Setup menu may increase (or decrease) a vehicle’s centering force, perhaps necessitating small changes in Gain values. After testing, select a global FFB Gain setting that best suits most vehicles in the sim; after that, tweak individual, in-car Gain adjustments as needed. AMS2 will save individual vehicle Gain differences, and the Force Feedback subsection provides the option to erase all of these values if desired.

3) Leave FX and Damping both at 0 and switch over to the Default FFB profile. The Default profile takes the Basic profile’s steering rack forces and adds an Electronic Power-Assisted Steering (EPAS) model that activates the following features: 1) inherent friction and damping, calibrated for each individual car, 2) enhanced road/kerb vibrations, and 3) front-wheel slip/tire scrub effects. Similar to how a sports car with EPAS may tighten its steering feel when placed in Sport mode, the default profiles in AMS2 modify friction and damping on a per-car basis within the sim. With AMS2 V1.4, there were little, if any, appreciable differences between the Basic and default profiles when FX and Damping were set to 0. In AMS2 V1.5, however, there are obvious differences—even with FX and Damping zeroed--when switching between the Basic, steering-rack profile and the default profiles, which include EPAS modeling. Therefore, keeping FX and Damping at 0 provides a suitable baseline for initial comparisons between all Reiza FFB profiles, prior to further fine tuning.

Setting Damping

Feel free to consult the suggested Damping values in the Initial Settings table; in short, weaker wheels require 0 to 10 Damping, whereas more powerful wheels benefit from 50 (+/- 10) Damping. The Damping slider primarily accounts for inherent damping and friction within the system, so determine a suitable Damping value first, and hold it relatively constant, before working to fine tune the FX setting. In general, all but the weakest wheel bases (e.g., G25/G27) will benefit from some amount of Damping. Once the Default profile is set with the correct LFB and Damping values for a specific wheel base, the user should develop a baseline feel for these settings while keeping FX at 0.

Setting FX

With Damping properly set, tune FX to your preferred level of enhanced road/kerb vibration & front-wheel slip/tire scrub effects, (e.g., progressive bleed-off in front-wheel FFB resistance as tires lose grip). As a result of the more recent physics updates and improved tire model, FX values in AMS2 V1.5 may need to be notably lower than those previously recommended for V1.4. Some users may decide to maintain FX at 0 if baseline EPAS modeling improves overall steering feel, devoid of additional vibration effects, as setting FX to 0 allows the sim to automatically adjust inherent friction and damping for each vehicle, without further amplifying kerb and vibrational forces. As noted earlier, even the weakest wheels that require Damping set to 0 (e.g., G25/G27) can still benefit from a baseline level of EPAS engagement when FX is 0. Also, as Damping and FX values can conceivably interact with each other to some degree, the best combination of values may require a small bit of final tweaking, but once found, both Damping and FX should be held constant. The Default profile may produce increased FFB levels compared to the Basic profile—although this has been greatly reduced in AMS2 V1.5.3—so attenuate Gain as needed (either globally or on a per-car basis) to restore the desired FFB level.

4) Finally, switch to Default+ FFB profile. Default+ takes the Default FFB profile and additionally generates stationary/low-speed drivetrain vibrations and front- & rear-wheel slip/tire scrub effects. When switching from the Default to Default+ profile, it should be possible to leave LFB, Damping, and FX values unchanged, modifying overall Gain as needed to maintain optimal FFB output. With some hardware, however, FX may require a bit of final tweaking when moving up to the Default+ profile.

Once set, make note of the optimal LFB, Damping, FX, and Gain levels for each profile. Ideally, LFB, Damping, and FX settings for the Default & Default+ profiles should be identical, with only minimal differences in Gain, if any. With a common reference point now set, feel free to make final comparisons between Reiza’s Basic, Default, and Default+ profiles based on your own hardware, testing results, and preferences.

Conclusion

The methodology described here will yield a clear understanding of what each Reiza FFB profile and/or FFB slider actually does in isolation and how they all, in fact, interrelate with one another. Despite all the evidence to the contrary in this article, Reiza's FFB profiles are actually designed to be relatively simple to set up, and the entire process can be reduced to the following:

1) Set LFB and Damping to Reiza's recommended levels, based on wheel base strength.

2) Set FX to achieve desired level of vibration effects and additional EPAS-model enhancement. Once determined, hold LFB, Damping, and FX constant.

3) To optimize FFB dynamic range and minimize clipping, adjust Gain globally, and on a per-vehicle basis, as needed.


As an example, here is how this tuning process would unfold with a Logitech G25:

1) Consult the Wheel Base table. If specific LFB and/or Damping values are not listed for a wheel, refer to its smaller “Suggested FFB Settings by Wheel Strength” table for a suitable starting range of values. For the G25, set LFB to 60 and Damping to 0.

2a) FX is initially set at 0 while testing the Basic profile.

3a) After driving a selection of cars with the Basic profile, the recommended Gain value of 100 is reduced globally to 75 (e.g., F-USA 2023 at Indy Oval, F1 cars, etc.). Note: Gain needs to be increased for low-downforce cars.

2b) The Default profile is engaged. FX is still at 0.

3b) After driving a selection of cars with the Default profile, baseline EPAS model contributions (FX 0) are judged as positive (e.g., improved steering response due to EPAS modeling of inherent friction, etc.). Gain remains at 75. Note: Gain remains much better optimized due to EPAS model activation; only very small Gain tweaks, if any, are needed when switching vehicles.

2c) Higher FX values with Default profile are trialed, to no positive effect. The additional vibrations are perceived as an annoyance on the G25, and impair overall steering feel. FX is returned to 0.

3c) The Default+ profile is engaged (FX 0). Previous poor results trialing higher FX values (step 2c) makes further FX testing unnecessary. After testing an additional selection of cars, Gain remains at 75.

Final settings:

Basic profile: Gain 75, LFB 60, FX 0, Damping 0 (Note: +/- Gain adjustments needed to optimize)
Default profile: Gain 75, LFB 60, FX 0, Damping 0
Default+ profile: Gain 75, LFB 60, FX 0, Damping 0

Although all three Reiza FFB profiles were systematically optimized using this method, further comparisons may be required to settle which FFB profile is the preferred choice. In the case provided above, the user will simply need to decide whether the Default’s front-wheel EPAS model or Default+ front- & (some) rear-wheel EPAS model is preferred. Because all other variables have been systematically tested and calibrated, the final, subjective choice is buttressed and supported by a rational, objective methodology. Moreover, the consistency of this tuning approach will help a simracer better discern sim-related issues worthy of report to developers (e,g, “I am confident in my FFB tune, but the Formula Reiza still feels way off compared to other cars in AMS2.”) rather than unintentionally misinterpreting noise and variability stemming from suboptimal FFB settings. Simracers who utilize this methodology, but who ultimately fail to connect with any of the original FFB profiles in AMS2--or who are genuinely interested in exploring additional layers of FFB complexity--may be better served utilizing a third-party, custom FFB profile (conveniently available here) rather than over-complicating Reiza's straightforward approach to FFB.


Appendix: Centering Force for Logitech G25 & G27 Users

According to the V1.4 guidelines provided by Reiza, Logitech G29 & G923 users should set the centering force in G HUB to 20. By the same reasoning, though not explicitly stated in the post, G25 & G27 users should consider setting their Wingman Profiler centering force to 10%, as recommended in the original Automobilista User Guide, p. 34:



Of note, Reiza's G25 profile from Automobilista sets Force Feedback Strength at 100 and FFB Low Force Boost at 60, which are identical to the Gain and LFB values now recommended for AMS2. Gain may need to be attenuated when driving high-downforce vehicles using the HUD's FFB display and Vehicle FFB Gain +/- keys. Regarding wheel base profile software, keep in mind that Steam typically selects the AMS2AVX executable in most cases, regardless of VR status (if so, the AMS2 version number on the main menu will end in .AVX).

A .pdf version of this FFB Tuning methodology is available (see attached).

This Guide is part of the Automobilista Mod Registry.

 

Can somebody explain to me the relation between Fanatec (CSL Elite+) "drift mode" and AMS2 "damping"?