Group C cars grip under acceleration

Speaking of Group C cars. Sauber C9 is quite fast comparing to others and it seems there is more grip onboard that car. But I'm a controller/gamepad player and using low tc and low abs. Fast all around car. Mostly I'm quite satisfied how these cars handle.

 

I don't know if the GroupC cars in AMS2 are accurate or not, but the two videos bellow, of Chris Harris and Ben Collins talking about their experience with a Porsche 962 seem to imply that these cars might not be as unrully as you might think.

Chris Harris describes the steering as lovely and pretty neutral (at 8:42) and Ben Collins goes even further and calls it easy to drive and forgiving (at 7:03) and very user-friendly (7:52).

Again, I don't know if they are correct on AMS2 or not... I'll leave that up for the devs to figure out since I'm sure they must have better data on these cars than I do. Mostly I just wanted to share these two amazing videos for those who might be interested in Group C, and the 962 in particular

Also, setups and tarmac conditions vary, so these videos might not be all that meaningful to learn anything... but they're still cool.

 

Same problem is also with GT(E) cars.

Example GTE Porche, no matter slicks or hard compound.
Set TC to 1 and those leds flash like hell when floor gas pedal to max from tight corner, no loose of grip.
Set TC to 0 and leds do not flash at all however same amount of grip, you can accelerate with full gas and no worry to loose grip of rear.

That came with new physics and I really wonder why others do not notice that kind of thing.

 

This is my thinking also after watching some old footage from Le Mans and some more recent onboards.

In the day at least, I don't get the impression that these cars were unmanageable. In wet or damp conditions I'm sure they were much trickier. I do think though that maybe the throttle response that we have is a bit on the tame side now. I don't expect them to step out at every opportunity but in low speed situations, it does feel like you can be a bit too heavy footed and get away without any real drama. But yeah overall probably not far off at all.

 

I posted this video in the other thread that was locked. This is a Mercedes C11, which has probably improved aero and drivability compared to the C9. It looks to me like the driver is applying 50% throttle while cornering and goes full throttle only in a straight line or when the corner radius is very large.

 

I noticed this in the GT3 Merc (as stated in another thread). Since then, I tested this further by setting the track to "Green" and lapped at Nurburgring Veedol. Default setup.

You can actually hear the TC kicking in. The green TC Dash Light and the sound are exactly the same in terms of how often they kick in for TC 1 and 10 (nothing for TC 0), but the grip is definately different with more grip at TC 10 than 1 (as expected). I used the last corner as my test and accelerated hard coming out of it and definately noticed the difference (its NOT mammoth mind you). TC 0 was different to TC 1 but extremely subtle.

I was never in danger of losing control but my tires are always up to temp. Does it seem very grippy regardless? To me I would say Yes, but I don't know really having never raced a GT3 merc. For comparison sake, I took the ACC Merc out for a spin (literally) with TC 0 in ACC on same track and car, the thing just loses the rear with ease which I think is way over the top (one extreme to the other it seems ).

I know this thread is about Group C, just responding to other post

 

I´m sure devs will notice that this kind of grip is not meant to be and adjust it with future releases.
Until then I race with other classes, GT´s are way too easy and arcadish unrealistic now.
ACC and iRacing are still on PC but didn´t drive those for months, just AMS2.

 

Wouldn’t say a car which “has too much grip” is “acradisn”

 

Why you wouldn´t say, is unrealistic more proper term?

I don´t wanna any fight here and AMS2 been my favourite game, actually only game which I played for a long time now.
I don´t play so much anymore, sold my 10 000$ motion rig and nowdays play with much more simple setup.

 

Yeah unrealistic is a better word. Arcady is just used nowadays as an “insult” for sims they don’t t like

 

I think these cars are spot on in terms of drivability, like many cars in AMS2 are. Pretty sure you'll have a hard time finding an interview or a video with someone saying the 962 was very tricky and difficult to drive. I think this is a nice task to dig a little bit and see if I can find statements from the likes of a Derek Bell or Stuck.

What I found yesterday is that you really can hit the throttle in low speed situations, you don't need to be as careful as in previous builds. I just tested the 962 and the Corvette, will test the other two tonight, I'm sure the Nissan still rips the asphalt from the road.

I can't remember where but someone already mentioned that Group C got slower. Maybe power output is reduced, hence the more predictable behavior on corner exit.

 

If you really think so dont you then think its strange its impossible to come even near ones former TT laptimes?
Be aware Im talking about laptimes where you both pre/post 1.5 upd are able to drive the cars very close to their virtual grip limit.
Hehe driving your pants off I mean - but still holding the car on track.

 

That could be down to other factors too. My observations are purely based on corner exit acceleration as you can now stamp down the throttle with practically no TC and the car is docile like a Golden Retriever. Try the FV10 gen 2 and you'll notice the same I reckon.

 

When there's less lateral grip laptimes go down...

When there's too much longitudinal grip you get the lifeless driving the OP and you describe... As it takes away the need to think with ones feet...

 

That's normal driving in most racing cars. You control the throttle through the corners and then go full send, if you look at a modern car without TC you will probably see the same, if we could have telemetry from the Group C cars, it would be pretty similar as well. I did not see overly careful throttle input in that video.
He actually goes full beans rather quickly, only had a very sudden snap oversteer exiting the chicane and he controlled it almost instantly without much effort.

I agree that the current Group C cars have a little too much traction on low gears and very little wheelspin, but I had a couple of snap oversteer moments with the C9 on Imola, the issue is when going straight, out of corners you can't go full send because you will spin.

These Group C cars also have a mystic reputation for being more difficult to drive than what they really where. Plenty of evidence already posted here.

They where more physical and tough to drive, but that doesn't necessarily mean more difficult!

 

At the same time i could argue that "pleasant to drive" and "neutral", as some drivers describe the Porsche 962 doesn't mean they were able to go full throttle mid turn, as we are able to do in AMS2 now. In 90% of the cases, if you press the throttle hard while turning in V1.5 you just run out of road because the car can't turn that tight if you increase the speed too quickly. Fact is that at least for me and a few others that posted here, the Group C cars in AMS2 are currently incapable of wheelspin under traction, even in 1st gear, on cold tires and on a green track, and i doubt this was true for their real life counterparts.

 

Tried it today with the Porsche at Cadwell Park and was clearly able to wheelspin the car in 1st and 2nd. But other than before, i was mostly able to catch her again and don't hammer her into the fence.
If you call that arcade than i'm proud to love the best arcade racing game i've ever seen...

 

I agree that they have a little too much traction on low gears when going straight, I just don't really agree that the video you posted is relevant to the issue. What corners can you go 90% throttle mid turn and run out of road? Low speed hairpins? I can't do it with the default setup on Imola, I spin every time, also in Kyalami historic I can't just floor it in the tight left hander before the esses.

I don't expect the highest performance sportscars of their era to break traction on the middle of a mid speed corner when going 85+ mph, you will naturally just understeer and run off, I don't see an issue with that.

 

Did a few laps in the C9 and the Porsche again at Donington and you get wheelspin coming out of the hairpins. However, they feel a little bit like they're on modern slicks currently. I think this is something that can be addressed in future updates.

They're awesome to drive, though. Responsive and direct, just like in those videos above. They just need a bit less traction in low speed situations.

 

It seems there's either definitely a bug in the system causing too much grip or there's simply too much grip in these tyres...

I'm hoping it's the former as I want to believe my time spent on the Sauber C9 on 1.5 was due to bugs... But it was very bland and I could just stand on the throttle coming out of the bus stop on medium rubber... I only spent 20 minutes in it because I wanted to try other cars, but I was already thinking I needed to make changes to the C9 to bring it back to an acceptable level for me... It shouldn't run on the same tyres as the 962 anyway...

But since release day I've not been able to get to the menus... Let alone on track to nail down this bug...

These cars are not GT3 cars... They weren't designed for dentists, the 962 was the easiest car to drive in Group C because it had years of development that the C9 never saw... But it still wasn't an easy ride on the limit...