Bug Reports - Automobilista 2 (Read the Opening Post)

This is still happening and I think it's a big issue, at least for Logitech users. I am on a G923 and without having a great custom FFB file, I couldn't enjoy this game. I can set damping to 100 and the pendulum effect is still there. I tried default and default+ FFB after every physics update and came back to rFuktor 5.0.1.4 by Stakanov (I think it's ATMOS 1.4 Fix with YAW).

The default FFBs do feel improved, but in every turn, the wheel wants to snap too hard and too far in the opposite direction. I've never driven a real race car, but I bet a race driver wouldn't do a lap when steering feels like this. With Stakanov's file, it feels like my hatchback, sometimes like a bit too much power steering, but it's the best FFB I can get in any sim, it's just natural effects I can react to.
If the default FFB would be more like this, I am pretty sure all the Logitech users would stick to the game. It is the best sim, if first-timers could feel this, AMS2 would sit on the throne

 

Your report is completely counter to my experience using the default ffb presets. At 50% Damping (in-game ffb), my wheel is quite stable and controlled, hands off is no problem at all, no sign of ffb-overshoot.

Note: One critically important factor is the Direct-Input ffb settings in the wheel driver software. If those (Especially Damping) are set at 0%, the Damping slider in AMS2 ffb will have no effect.

 

This sounds like inverted FFB. Older sims used to have a checkbox for logitech wheels to fix this. Although it's never been an issue with basic/default/default+ on my driving force GT in AM2

 

Track & Layout Used: Any
Car Used: Any
Applicable Settings: Motion Blur set to 'off' in Options
Report: The Tracking Speed slider in Photo Mode is non-functional when motion blur is off in Options.
Prior to V1.5.3.2 it was still functional with this configuration

 

Unfortunately, Logitech G Hub Software doesn't give many options, there is no damping slider, just gain and sensitivity. I never touched these sliders, so this is all set to default as all developers recommend.

It doesn't feel inverted, there are the right effects but the dynamics aren't right. For example, if I turn 30° to the left and try to slowly center the wheel out of the corner, there is a strong force that pushes the wheel 40° to the right. It's not that self-aligning caster feel.

I just double checked it, with default FFB and damping slider set to 50 or even 100, the pendulum effect still occurs. Default+ is a bit better, the damping slider reduces the pendulum effect much more, but overall it feels more like ACC, the effects that would be helpful are overshadowed by some artificial strong ones.

Maybe this wheel is special and you can't compare it to other Logitechs or other brands wheels. I don't know if there's much info from Logitech given to developers, it seems hard to properly support the G923 because it's translating numbers not as "logical" as other wheels, and some custom files just hit the right numbers.

 

A small one:
Custom Championship
Live track preset always switches back to "Standard" after saving the entire championship.

Steps to reproduce:
1 Create a championship and set preset for training of a certain event to "Medium" and save. When you check the settings once again, preset is correct.
2 Now save the whole championship
3 Before start, switch back to the race settings and you will see that track preset is on "Standard" again.

So, the option to choose presets in custom championships is just a waste of time right now, as the game finally decides to reset all chosen settings to "Standard" again after saving the trophy.

Here is a short video about that bug:

 

sry, wrong thread

 

TBH if the ffb creates any fake movement of the steering wheel as you're implying then it should be possible to see that by not using FFB and showing the cockpit view the virtual steering wheel doesn't move sharply to the right but when you enable FFB it is.

I mean, the physics engine will have its idea of where the steering wheel should be. The primary function of FFB is to move your physical input device to where the simulation believes it to be (all the "I want to feel the road, slip and blah blah blah" is secondary) No only that it should move it at the same rate (although this is where the nm and motor characteristics of many of our wheels are lacking - it might not always be possible - what happens when it isn't? Well your physics wheel not moving is going to be interpreted by the physics engine as you moving the wheel or you stopping it from moving by force - that's why it's not easy to drift on a driving force gt because the wheel in your hand is in the wrong place and you lose control over the simulation)

If the cockpit wheel is snapping then it's probably the way you're driving (e.g heavy right foot will make many cars oversteer on corner exit) or a bug in physics. At which point even if you used some potential custom ffb to dampen it (or unplugged your wheel power supply so there was no ffb) it wouldn't really be fixing what was broken. You'd just be putting in unintended wheel inputs to the physics engine - in a similar way where if the ffb is over-gained it may add oscillations - but in the opposite way, you're not getting movements that you should be.

But if you're saying without ffb enabled (gain zero or psu unplugged) on the wheel in the cockpit isn't pushed to the right then the flaw would be in the ffb.

 

Formula HiTech Gen 1, Model 1:
According to the car selection screen, this car should have TC. But it is not available in car when low downforce model is in use. TC is only there with standard model of this car.

 

Thanks Michael, I tried it without FFB and the wheel in cockpit and the car were stable. So it isn't a physics issue, and when my driving is wrong, I usually know it
But you made me rethink. I stared from scratch, deleting the whole Documents folder (didn't do that for a while, just reset the setups every time) and yes, default FFB feels much better.

What I described as pendulum effect is still a thing in a lot of cars I tested, but I think it is more a Logitech issue. I already read a lot about this dead center feel, when you go straight and feel no friction holding the wheel straight. People describing it as "it's wobbling around the center". I would say it wants to dance around the center, left and right to the points where the feedback kicks in. I thought the damping should help the car stable itself, but I guess the damping can't happen in this dead zone. So that dancing around the wheels center is what gives me unnatural effects in shallow turns. And some cars give me the pendulum effect when just cruising on the straight and just tap the wheel slightly in any direction. It won't stop going left and right where it should slowly center itself after a few wobbles. Maybe you can reproduce this with your Driving Force?

This dead center is what my preferred custom FFB killed somehow. Now I think I am not asking for a bug fix here, but for a hack that this file uses. It's like, we could just go on thinking we gear driven Logitech users have to get used to it or buy a more advanced wheel. But I can't accept that, knowing that there is some solution Stakanov and other custom FFB creators have found.

 

TBH I use low gain about 60% in the settings and usually 70% or less in the cars, and I've been using basic or default ffb. The default+ makes the wheel rattle - maybe that's a flat spot or the engine but it's not a nice effect on the DFGT. Typically in AC they had canned effects separate so you could put their equiv of FX on zero but I think doing that with default+ would defeat the purpose of using it anyway? You don't gain anything that you need to drive anyway - which I know people don't agree with but it's true nevertheless.

I've used Daniel's 1-3nm and it works and is rattle free but I don't want to use something that a game update will break because then I'm waiting for a fix. It's like Team fortress 2 has lots of alternate huds but the game updates and the hud will make it crash and then you have to wait, but I've spent 15000 hours playing TF2 with the same settings - I don't want to change them even for whatever length of time it takes for a fix. I want consistent settings that never change and then every hour I put in the game is about getting better with those settings. The people who are constantly changing their ffb and fov and whatever? It's down to them but it doesn't surprise me if they never get happy and if that hurts their ability to drive consistently. So custom ffb / mods etc are great for games where the developer has long gone, like you can use content manager and whatever else in AC, but anything that a developer is going to tell me to remove if my game crashes (whether it's caused by it or not) or that causes the game to crash or that might break between updates? I don't really want to install it if I can help it.

The objective for me is to get a wheel that has enough resistance to moving that I can control my inputs i.e so the wheel isn't too sloppy and easy to move. It's like the feel of the wheel in the game menus with centring force at about 15-20% rather than the feel of the logitech wheels when you're not in a game and it takes an effort to turn.

If I put higher gain it breaks because at high gains the resistance during cornering or if you lose control feels awful like a notchy gear and even without clipping on the ffb it feels like it's clipping. There's no discernible feel and I usually end up having to use so much force to turn that I can't make the subtle inputs that correct the car. I lower the gain in car until the highest force I feel, feels nice - that's the best I can describe it - but it's not a lot of force. I can easily put full lock on the wheel - same as I can in my family car that has power steering when I'm parking - but it's less force than that and the wheel is smaller so it does feel a bit toyish.

Plus, when you turn from left through top dead centre to right (or the reverse) with a higher gain you're putting in a reasonable force to turn the wheel and then suddenly you'll hit the bit with no force so you'll start turn it faster, so you'll try to slow but then you'll hit force again so you need to increase your effort. That's a bit like trying to control your mouse in an FPS if you put sandpaper either side of your mousepad and left a bit of smooth mouse pad in the middle - you'd go sliding past your target because you were pushing so hard to get over the friction and then there'd be no friction for a second.

So with low gain I get the feedback but I can still control the wheel both around the centre and when I'm mid corner. And I just see the controls as that, a computer game, like if you're using a mouse and keyboard. I'm being delicate on them holding the wheel lightly, fingertip control. I'm not smashing my feet into the pedals I'm just pushing them gently in socks. It might not match the reality of some of the cars in the game but you never will with a £75 low nm wheel. Especially not with the zero force at TDC which is a design flaw that it makes little sense for them to be still taking people's money for. I'm sure by now they could be selling an entry level belt drive that doesn't have the issue manufactured at a high enough volume that the cost would be around the same. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is significantly cheaper to make gear based wheels.

The thing that AM2 adds that works well is LFB. I have this at 100% (although I see Reiza recommend 60% for the better logitech wheels) - otherwise tracks like Monza that are just mostly driving in a straight line there'd be barely any force on the wheel at all and high powered rwd cars won't want to drive in a straight line.

LFB means you get a level of resistance to turning the wheel that gives you control but not so high that there's a big dip in force through the centre and it won't clip or negatively affect the busy end when you're corning in the way that upping the gain to try and get some resistance on the straight ahead does.

But the fix is a better wheel without a doubt. At least if you want to experience better FFB. You probably won't be any faster. And you'd have to be so much faster to make it worth it. I looked at the cheap DD you can put on the desk, it's £500 so not that cheap. 6x more than I've spent on sim racing hardware - but the pedal inputs are the same so your braking is still going to suck. If you start buying a rig to screw things to and a manual shifter you soon hit £2.5k - and that's before you then start to question your PC side and the VR because if you've spent all that you don't really want to be watching the game in a rift S / 1070 with settings on medium or low - so you've £500 for a vr headset and maybe £1.5k to £2k for the PC replacement or upgrades. So not much change out of £5k - but you're playing the same game and your lap times are the same.

So, you know, I put up with the foibles of the £75 DFGT because to improve my experience would cost £5k

 

Track & Layout Used: Any
Car Used: Any with different tires
Applicable Settings: Online session with fixed setups
Report: Changing tires doesn't work. Workarround?
Steps to reproduce:

• Join a session with fixed setup (you can use my # Sanganchao Practice # server
• Select one car with more than a tire type.
• Change tire (nothing happens).
• Change tire, save setup and exit (nothing happens)
• Back to menu and load the setup (no any setup visible to load)
• Back to Quick setup and Change tire again
• Save setup and without exiting click load. Then you see the setup and when you click load, it changes the tires. It’s the only way to see the setup and select other tire to start a race. You always have to save and inmmediatly load a setup to change tires, it's the only oportunity to make it work.

Explanation: In my community we usually use fixed setups for our online races for different reasons. Most of us don’t have time to make setups and we prefer that driver skills makes the difference instead of other circumstances (or exploits).

In AMS2 with fixed setup, we are facing two problems: the tires and fuel load are automatic and the game selects it by the session length or weather conditions. That makes no possible different strategies because it's conditioned by what the game decides (usually there are very different fuel loads). If you want to test other tire (hards, wets…) in practice session, you have to create a pit stop strategy, make a lap with defaults, enter to pit and mount the desired tire of fuel load. In race it’s the same, you can’t choose a different tire to start the race, you only can select a different tire in pit stop strategy and make an extra pit stop. With everyone with same tires and fuel load at the start, you don't have chance of a different strategy.

From some months ago, there is an option to select the tires in quick setup menu, but it doesn’t work. You select hards or wets i.e. but it doesn’t change it and remains as “Automatic by weather”. We all thought that this option was not yet implemented, so didn’t pay much attention to it.

But accidentally I discovered that if you change the tires, save the setup (with default name), and load the setup, you finaly get the desired tire. The key is using the load option just after saving without exiting to main menu. If you don’t do it in that secuence, you can't see any setup to load. To restore the original tire, the only option is repeating the pocedure.

Don’t know if that is a design issue, a UI bug or may be both, but doesn’t make sense. Probably the intention with fixed is that you don’t see any setup to load, but saving and load immediately has a different result. If change tire option in quick setup worked as it should do, the load and save options could be greyed or the load setup could show a blank list.

BTW, more quick setup options should be avaliable with fixed setups (specially the fuel load), because tires & fuel are part of the strategy, not setups, and that will make possible different race strategies. That also would help to avoid different fuel loads we are experiencing, even with same car. This usually makes that some drivers start with mid tank and has to stop for fuel, while others don't.

 

no need to save the setup, change tyre compound in the quick menu, click drive, then return to pitbox, click drive again and you have the compound you selected, this does not seem to work with some of the "low downforce" variants of the cars though.

 

Track & Layout Used: Any
Car Used: Formula HiTech Gen2 Model2
Applicable Settings: Race
Report: Some LOD lower res model shows rear wing of Model2 from behind not correctly mapped (it seems), it switches on when car (F-Hitech Gen2 Model2) in front of me is more than 50-80 m away.

 

Track & Layout Used: any
Car Used: any
Applicable Settings: online open lobby
Report: Occasionally non-full (open) lobbies allow me to join the lobby (where I can pick my car), but when I want to click 'join' to load into the game, I get the message "cant join, too many players". Just now it happened in a lobby with 16 players, and room for 23.
Steps to reproduce: Just go online and try to join all lobbies that are 75%+ full.
Maybe the total lobby capacity (max players) is being reported incorrectly?
Or maybe this happens when a lobby has at some point been full, but now has some free spots again? Anyhow, it's a pity, there aren't that many populated lobbies to enjoy, so it's a bummer when a bug like this makes it even more difficult to find a good race.

 

Track & Layout Used: Any
Car Used: Mini Cooper S
Applicable Settings: Any
Report: When braking he buries his entire little body and tires in the track.

 

That's a good question, never thought about cranking that up, I always tried between 10 an 50 and didn't really understand what it does. But as Michael says, it's good at 100:

Yeah, that seems to work
LFB and Damping at 100 and it's stable on the straight. Still some things I have to get used to, but I think it feels right.

Feel you, that's why I always tried to use defaults. And I wanted to feel all the improvements.


Thanks a lot for helping me. I have to drive a bit more over the weekend to know if I can drive as good as with the custom ffb I've used for a year now, but I can feel more sensation and how different the cars are.

And sorry for turning this into a ffb discussion, I guess I got confused over all the options and that some sliders work a bit different from other sims. Finally I've found the right answers for me here

 

On my wheel, it doesn't really oscillate more, there's just more vibration in the center. But it snaps more to the center and I can go straight without touching the wheel. Still a bit of dead zone when I turn it down to 50. I'll drive some more and find a good value in between.