Gamepad Support - Analysis, Suggestions, Wishes

That sounds interesting, never head of DxAce before, is it quite easy to set up, may have a go of that.

Thanks

 

I have to disagree about any form of inbuilt deadzone or latency.

I'm using a Gamesir G7 SE which has hall effect sticks.
Default setup it has a deadzone of 10 on both sticks but I set this to 0.
You can't get any more sensitive, apart from setting it to raw mode.

I currently use dx ACE to get some sense of haptic feedback while driving on the circuit surfaces in AMS2, but I've run the following test in both wheel emulation mode with dx ACE and gamepad mode using linear settings (hat tip to Dicra for those, FS7's seem close as well).

While the telemetry steering visual display seems a little off, the actual steering wheel and linked front wheel motion is 1 to 1 with my stick movement down to the slightest micro movement. Even down to that micro 1% to 3% zone, the slightest nudge I can see the steering wheel move and the front wheels move. But, as mentioned, the steering L/R bar on the telemetry HUD is not giving output consistent in that first ~3% range with what I'm seeing visually with the wheels ie: it's not showing movement in the micro range while the wheels are actually moving.

There is no inbuilt deadzone I can see (or feel) at all, or input latency. Ditto for ACC and EA WRC (plus others). And no, I don't use "Tap steering" (who would, unless you're on a keyboard), I just use a gamepad as you would normally. Whether you want to call that "precision steering" is up to you, I just call it steering.

I would be checking your controllers and configurations in that case, or maybe the windows gamepad calibration.

Gamepad mode settings:
STEERING DEADZONE 0
STEERING SENSITIVITY 50
THROTTLE DEADZONE 0
THROTTLE SENSITIVITY 50
BRAKE DEADZONE 0
BRAKE SENSITIVITY 50
CLUTCH DEADZONE 10
CLUTCH SENSITIVITY 25
SPEED SENSITIVITY 50 to whatever you feel works for you @ speed
CONTROLLER DAMPING 10
CONTROLLER VIBRATION 100
MINIMUM SHIFT TIME 0
RPM/Gear Display YES
ENABLE ANALOGUE INPUTS IN MENU YES

dx ACE settings:
I used the dx ACE PC2 preset but to get it to work I changed to gamepad from wheel, and also AMS2 needs xinput1_3.dll not the one specified.

dx ACE feedback is marginally better than stock. at least even though it's really just brake/throttle input linked to feedback level (unlike ACC/WRC), so there's that. Kudo's to the dev(s). I couldn't get dx ACE to respond with the actual road/curb feedback from AMS2 (and left some feedback for them on that, no response as yet) but it's still better than zero feel at all. I get a small amount of fake random feedback it seems, but as it's disconnected from the actual surface it doesn't add much. ACC and WRC have it nailed here.

Steering wise gamepad on linear settings vs dx ACE are about the same for me.

In any event, whether you think there's issues with latency, dead zones or haptics or whatever, I think we can all agree the gamepad implementation is very suboptimal when you compare that to other top current sims with quality gamepad implementations or even AMS1.

I stand by my original posts in that the core issue is a terrible haptic feedback implementation (as well as a limited and opaque settings configuration) which was identified from before AMS2 was even launched as an issue, in addition to being acknowledged by the developers (see previous posts), and then totally ignored for the last 4 years.

Meanwhile, other sim developers like Kunos with ACC and Codemasters/EA with EA WRC, recognise what can be done with the gamepad driving experience and develop great gamepad implementations that add a huge amount of value, and fun factor.

It is what it is, and given the fact Reiza studiously refuses to engage with this topic anymore indicates to me we just have to suck it up as they have no intention of doing anything more with gamepad.

My recommendation in that case, to get the best AMS2 gamepad experience, is invest in a Gamesir G7 SE (primarily for the hall effect sticks/triggers, and more or less the same price as a stock Microsoft XBox one gamepad) matched with dx ACE for your control settings and vibration to taste.

Have fun!

 

DxAce seems to be the missing link.. I'll give that a try!

 

If someone has time, could you explain about this DXace and how you implement it ?
But yes so much silence form the Devs, it is a shame really.

May have to invest in a Gamesir G7 SE and DXace to get the best experience.

Thanks

 

dx Ace comes with a readme, read it!
Use the included PC2 preset as I explained above as a starter.
I reset the lx curve to linear though.

 

Cheers Paul.
Much appreciated.

 

Ok now this is interesting. Are you saying that the lack of 1-3% deadzone is due to DXace, you've dialled it out in your controller software, or that you get that amount of control with AMS2 out of the box?
I did my tests with the formula Junior so I could clearly see the wheels, and there was a clear deadzone at centre despite steering deadzone being at zero. I've tried the Xbox controller and the Elite 2 and they both have this tiny deadzone, which is why I have speed sensitivity up quite high. At speed when it goes from the deadzone to catching the steering, you get quite a twitchy jerk of the steering at speed, so the higher sensitivity damps that a little.
It sounds like what you experience is what I'm looking for, but haven't managed to unlock yet. There is a little app with the Elite controller, but it's not great and it doesn't allow changing inbuilt deadzones. Now when I dug into this on my Steamdeck, you can go into the controls options and it enables really deep diving into every controller setting you can imagine, one of which is deadzones (in the controller not the game) and you can fine tweak to get rid of it, so I'd say gamepad control on Deck is better than on the PC.
I'll try DXace, it sounds promising, although it would be nice not to have to resort to 3rd party software.
I'd be very surprised that Reiza are ignoring this thread though, given the attention to detail that they have given to every other aspect of the game. I'm sure the time will come, and this thread will be a major help to get us where we want to be.

Edit: I also agree on haptic feedback, but that's another discussion

 

No. I'm saying I don't see any appreciable deadzone whether it's dx Ace or stock AMS2 @ linear settings. There appears to be a bit of a visual deadzone with the telemetry HUD L/R wheel input UI bar though, but the wheels move still. In any event, there's no appreciable impact on steering that I can see.

dx ACE, like AMS2, will give different results as well depending on the settings you have, but I try and do everything linear now, with no dead zones (as the G7 SE is fine) no matter what the sim - AMS2, ACC, or WRC.

I don't know if it's a tolerance thing with people's controllers or what.
I suspect the dead zone you are seeing is more the controller play before the contacts start reading than it is in AMS2. At least that's my conclusion. I've used a few different gamepads before this one too.

The only way to really settle it is for Reiza to paste the code where it's reading the inputs to determine if it's imposing a system dead zone/filter on inputs in the initial stick reading phase.

For speed sensitivity I use 65 for both dx Ace and AMS2 gamepad, and don't see an appreciable jump when transitioning from zero stick to wheel movement.

In any event, it doesn't really matter.

If (more likely than when!) Reiza ever does look at gamepad making sure the base setting is completely raw input when all settings are off should be one of the first checkboxes.
It's up to users to modulate the raw input they way they like. And that's just the starting point. There's no feedback in the settings to check your input sensitivity, dead zone thresholds vs actual input, or how the various filters impose control curves on that to modulate the output. Oh, and did I mention haptic feedback/vibration, or lack of it?

 

OK I think I've cracked it. The lightbulb moment came when I answered my own question above without realising it. I'd managed to get rid of that hidden deadzone on my Steamdeck. If only I had the same level of control on the PC. The answer wasn't in Windows or the Xbox software, but in Steam controller settings. Just imagine if desktop Steam had the same options as Steamdeck.

Doioink (the sound of an ACME anvil dropping on my head) and sure enough there it is. Dial out the deadzone in Steam controller settings and it's now exactly as you describe Paul. In my defence, I've never played any of my Steam PC games with a controller before, I never knew you had so much control from within Steam

 

Amen!

 

Interesting find!
The Gamesir Nexus software seems to get mixed reviews but it's very good from my experience, you can dial that in and out too.

 

May well be that the Nexus software does for your controller what Steam has done for me. Between us we can summon just about enough braincells to solve most problems.

 

I guess that may vary depending on which controller people are using.

I use a Microsoft Xbox 360 wired controller, I've done tests many times over the years comparing controller response between AMS1 and AMS2, using same controller settings, same car, same car setup, same track, with and without DxAce, never messed with Steam input settings, pre-rendered frames set at 1, game mode enabled on my tv.
I don't have any issues with deadzones but in the many tests I've done over the years between the 2 games I've noticed that using the same settings steering response is slower in AMS2. While in AMS1 I can make quick corrections with steering in AMS2 there seem to be some sort of filter that slows down my steering inputs (if I move the analog stick slowly steering works fine but if I move the analog stick quickly the game slows down my inputs) and that can make quick corrections very difficult to perform, that happens without DxAce and with DxAce & xinput enabled. Enabling direct input in DxAce gets rid of that slowdown but makes steering very awkward, so I prefer using xinput.
Haptic feedback and almost non-existent without DxAce, and somewhat better with DxAce + setting adjustments but it's still nowhere as good as AMS1.

My guess is that the controller issues people have been complaining about are related to how Madness Engine handles controller inputs (again, this may vary depending on which controller people are using). I remember reading in the PCars forums post from Ian Bell saying that in PCars2 they adjusted controller support to make the game cater to casuals that use assists and tap steering, and even said how he could play the game on a controller using tap steering.
The fact that the issues happen in PCARS1, PCars2, and AMS2, but controller works fine in games such as AMS1, rF1, rF2, AC, ACC, R3E confirms my guess.

Having the options that we had in AMS1 would be a dream come true (enable raw input and fine tune from there, good haptic feedback) but since every single person in the Reiza development team is a wheel player I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

I am very happy how my control responds, ok it could be better, but i do feel comfortable with how it works, i honestly would like to see a big improvement in the haptics, but as @FS7 mentioned, everyone in Reiza is a wheel user, so honestly i can but hope it will happen for us Gamepad users.

 

Well, I have world records in Time Trial in Project CARS 2 and with controller. ^^

And with AMS2, without having invested a lot of time in Time Trial because of the restarts, I have some very interesting times, rubbing shoulders with some very strong drivers of wheel.
On a few occasions I've found that I haven't been able to beat someone else's time with a controller. There are even some people with keyboards who are very fast.

 

re: dx ACE

fyi the dev just updated it to dx ace v0.12 with a lot of bug fixes, and changed some of the setup process (needs vjoy for wheel emulation).
He also responded to my previous questions with some useful info here: dx ACE / Discussion / Help and support: AMS2 + Gamepad Questions

dx ACE isn't the easiest to setup, even with the readme.
I'm using the older version dx ACE v0.11.0 bin as it's not reliant on vjoy, which can be a pita to get installed and running on windows 11. dx ACE v0.11.0 limits the feedback that it can implement as a result, but that's the tradeoff you make.
So upshot is dx ACE v12 uses vjoy, so be aware you'll need to cross that bridge as well.
Good luck with that! It looks like a total pita which I don't have time for so I'm sticking with v0.11 of dx ACE.
[the most current signed version of vjoy for win 11 appears to be this fork: GitHub - njz3/vJoy: Virtual Joystick YMMV
You can read the saga of getting that to work here: vJoy failed to install on Windows11 · Issue #57 · shauleiz/vJoy ]

It would all be so much easier if Reiza just fixed the gamepad implementation in AMS2.

@FS7 re: Latency
You should check out the Gamesir G7 SE, as it has configurable report rate from 256hz to 500hz up to an experimental 1000hz Tutorial: How to Enable the 1000 Hz Report Rate Setting
I'm using 500hz atm, seems aok.
MS also has some info in dynamic input latency @ GameInput Dynamic Latency Input - Microsoft Game Development Kit

 

Update on vjoy for win 11 needed for dx ACE V0.12 , from the developers who've been working to get it stable on win 11:
"we've a signed version of vJoy Release v2.2.2.0 · BrunnerInnovation/vJoy
We've had great success with it on win 11 so I hope it works for you as well.
kind regards"

Good luck with that!

 

This is a mind-blown moment.

My assumption was that sensitivity settings would be linear at 100, not 50. This explains so, so much. I’m having a good experience on my controller regardless but this will give me a bit more to tweak.

Is there a full description of how each setting works anywhere? I’m very confused over dampening.

 

Here's some of the original PC2 descriptions, which I suspect are unchanged.

 

Thank you, Paul!

This is very helpful. I tweaked some settings this morning and increased steering sensitivity from 28 to 40. I also reduced damping from 10 to 0.

The first few laps felt a bit twitchier, but not by much. And I did find that I had a tighter turning radius on sharp turns (like the final right/left combo at Spa). The car felt more responsive but also more at the limit, if that makes sense. It felt like I could send it into a spin much easier than before.