Physics discussion thread

It depends on "who" is making the default set ups, and their definition of better.
I think it would be safe to say that the default set ups for GT3 G2 are not "balanced" in the general sense. But with some small set up tweaks and adjusted driving techniques, the driving can feel more balanced.
Some might say less exciting, some might say more controlled. Depends on who you talk to.
But for those who just want to hop in with the default and go (without tweaking), they might be in for a wild surprise.

 

We'll better is a bit subjective and in what way? A lot of it is track dependent too.

I do think the setups could be much more safe, even if those would be slower than current ones, meaning a bit less emphaisis on rotation (so more understeer and less risk of oversteer on both corner entry and exit) to provide more stable starting point that wouldn't be as frustrating for new players who especially can struggle with the corner entry oversteer and drivers coming from something like ACC and LMU where you tend to brake late and use trail braking for rotation. I'm sure it would make the cars seem a lot less slidey as well to many.

That new GT4 Alpine that many seem to enjoy a lot... that has different default setup from a lot of other cars and I think that actually plays a huge part why people tend to enjoy it (the GT4 Aston is quite opposite with it's default setup, but that too can be adjusted to be more in the Alpine style).

 

One thing is for sure, the current defaults are very different that the defaults you find in sims like ACC and LMU (where the defaults can be much more understeery to a point it's frustrating)

 

The GT3 G2 defaults could probably be described as Expert Aggressive, so at least users should know what their getting into to.
Maybe there should also be a Balanced Safe set up offered, but would require more work for no sales return, so probably not going to happen.
All I do for a safer set up is drop some clutches, raise some EB, and enter corners with less trail braking. And of course a custom FFB file that lets you really feel the grip loss/recovery better.

 

I mean this is the setup that everyone first try. And they expect to be perfectly balance without big risk.

 

Without any description of what the GT3 G2 default set up "type" is, you are left to discover it on your own.
Expecting it to be perfectly balanced and safe seems logical, but in fact it's not.
Like if you order a steak in a diner, and don't specify how you want it cooked, who knows what you'll get on any given day with any given cook.

 

Gt3 gen2 is the class I am the more confortable. Gt4 or GT1 are more sensible with oversterr in corner entry. Gt3 gen2 could loose the rear if I don’t pay attention.

 

Just a quick reminder as I don't know if it has been addressed in any way, but a lot of the default setups (in a lot of the GT3 both gens) have very high engine braking, if you're having issues with snap oversteer under braking or throttle lift-off, I would suggest reducing this. I tested this and proved that the Nissan (at the time) had no difference on the engine braking setting, compared to the Porsche gen1 GT3 which went from 2 seconds slower than the Nissan for me, to being on par once I reduced the engine braking. Tweaking the engine braking for me transformed all the "undriveable" cars to being perfectly reasonable to handle. This is obvious a separate issue to the slip angle debate, but definitely a factor for those who are struggling in testing to maybe experiment with.

 

I'm sorry, what does EB stand for? Engine Braking?

 

Hi, what the you mean by Engine breaking ? Thanks[/QUOTE

 

it's a setting in the Drivetrain/Engine section (or whatever it's called) of the setup screen. It regulates the extent to which the engine slows itself down when off throttle. Be warned, the number essentially manages something like the amount of oil(?), so larger numbers mean less engine braking.

 

Can you put a screenshot please with the setting. thanks

 

Come on dude i mean, maybe look in the screen?

 

i think the gt cars have too much grip on the front tires. for gte cars i use hard tires for the front and soft tires for the rear and the floaty feeling is gone. for gt3 cars i put wet tires to the front, because no other compound is available. but even that feels better than soft/soft

 

There is absolutely no way you're on pace in the dry with wet tyres on the front, not to mention they'll overheat after only one or two laps.

If you need to reduce grip on the front, then firm up front sway bars as a starting point, and soften the rears.

 

you are right. but it is not about pace for me right now. i want to get rid of the floaty/slidy feeling. i already did firm up front sway bars. also set engine braking to 8-10, increased preload and set clutches to 2. it still feels weird. but changing the tires helps a lot more. how about you try gt3 wet/soft and gte hard/soft. and do not change anything else.

 

You are talking about "feeling", but it's important to make a distinction is it about feeling or car behavior.

"Feeling" is something that you might want to fix with camera and FFB options (if possible), but if it's car behavior that is actually floaty/slidy, then we are talking about car setup options and then it's improtant to know in what situations you experience this kind of behavior as it impacts what kind of setup changes make sense.

 

reverendsimracing on youtube described it very well in his last 2 videos about ams2:
"the car pivot on a central point. if the front has grip, the rear has none. if the rear has grip, the front has none."

 

He is right about front taking over the rear, but it's not so black and white. In any case, he was talking about oversteer on corner entry and about rotation on throttle (that can lead to oversteer on corner entry if you can't control it).

It's often ossible to change the setup in a way that a) there less if any rotation on throttle b) it's much harder to lose the rear on corner entry on AMS2 cars that have that kind of behavior on default setup without doing something like using wets on as front tires.

To weaken the front and shift balance to rear: make front springs stiffer, add front slow bump (20-30mm if possible), make front ARB stiffer, raise front height etc.

You can also try to increase the grip on the rear, but I find it's not usually effective enough without also weakening the front a bit. With corner entry being too lose, you can increase rear camber, but it hurts acceleration

I don't mind the on throttle rotation, I kinda like it if it's not too much as I'm able to modulate my throttle usage. Sometimes it helps to lower the diff clutches, but unless the over rotation on throttle is too much and car quite powerful, I want to avoid it because you are just "smoking the inside tire" by doing that, the power of the car is kinda wasted (goes too much to inside tire on corner, which causing wheelspin) and you can make it actually more snappy on corner entry and mid corner with too weak diff. Adding some preload can help and sometimes actually changing clutches to 8 is beneficial, if the setup is otherwise balanced.

My "go to solution", which I tend to try first, is trying to reduce the suspension travel, car pitching (diving / squating) with adding bump stops and then with some cars, also reducing dampers seem to help.

I don't think you can get a as "chronic understeer" behavior as you tend to have in GT3 on LMU with the GT3 on AMS2, but at least you balance it out more. There is still plenty of slip angle to play with, so it can feel more "drifty", just learn to use it to your benefit.

 

i applied your suggestions and it feels great now. thanks!