Automobilista 2 Force Feedback Overview & Recommendations

Yes, of course, I can't send my feedback and feelings to your hands. Nor can I feel your sensations and feedback.This is solely about the steering axis and the resulting benefits, which I believe are very significant. 'd like to try to explain to you what I feel. For this experiment, I'll do it with extreme values, even though they won't be the ones in the end. But so you can feel it better, which I might already feel at 25%.
Increase the steering sensitivity to 100% (the visual steering wheel is invisible, of course). Now drive with it and save your sensations.Then reduce the steering sensitivity to 0% and drive again and compare. The difference will be enormous, because the steering axis reacts completely differently.

The steering will become much more direct and progressive.The pressure and firmness of the steering axis will increase, and the center will become much sharper.The feeling will be less detached and less spongy.Additionally, this increased steering response will result in less boat feel and less slipping .And that's exactly what I notice with less steering sensitivity when I reduce it to about 25%. I can't say whether it will make a difference for you, but that's how it is for me.

 

Thanks @Danielkart I'm stuck at work until tomorrow (my time) but I'll try and experiment with it a bit when I'm back home.

 

I was testing this again and I think the linearity of 25 works so that the center becomes overly reactive, meaning even a small 5 degrees of rotation from center is actually a lot more in the game, but the more you apply steering (about half way from the maximum steering angle of that particular car) the more it's aligned with the actual physical rotation of the wheel (linear). This is why the wheel itself also goes crazy when you have it visible, because very little rotation is actually a lot more initially. It's actually not even the wheel, you can observe the same from a open wheeler front tires, those too can be seen turning a lot more initially with the 25 setting. Same can be seen from the telemetry view. I'm pretty sure it impacts the physics similar way, that's why it feels sharper and less floaty as you get more immediate response (less input adds more rotation initially).

 

Yes, that's why I recommended using an open-top F1 car, because then they can visually see what the car's wheels are doing. In VR, it's not possible to reduce the steering sensitivity, otherwise it would be visually chaotic. But with normal monitor use, it's different.

So, what's more important to them? All the benefits of reducing steering sensitivity, or whether their visual wheel runs faster visually for the first few degrees? In GT3, that's irrelevant anyway because the wheels aren't visible, and these cars are affected the most. For me personally, that's an easy answer. I enjoy less slipping and less boat feeling. Along with the other advantages I've described. These advantages clearly outweigh the disadvantages for me, and I will continue to use them as long as things stay that way. I actually only see disadvantages if they use VR (then they'd still use 50%) or if they didn't hide their virtual wheel (which doesn't make sense to me). Personally, this change is a small game-changer because it significantly improves the driving experience and feedback. Of course, it would be desirable if this feedback were at 50%, but unfortunately, it isn't, or isn't, the case yet. But of course everyone can decide for themselves what is more important to them

 

Ok, so, here are the results of my experimentations:

Cars: Porsche GT3 Gen2, Formula 3 (D309)
Wheelbase: Moza R9 V1, GS V1 wheel
Circuit used: Nurburgring 2020 Veedol layout

Daniel, I used your V7000 "File 1" for the wheelbase and followed the settings for the R9 V2 wheelbase to set it up.

So with both cars, I used v7000, Default+, and Default to test. I also switched steering sensitivity between 1 and 100, (sometimes mid-lap).

Any differences created by changing steering sensitivity, to me, are completely invisible to my brain. There may be a tangible change but I'm not consciously picking it up and I would be lying if I said I noticed any difference.

For me, "Default" is still the winner for both cars. It's hard to describe why, perhaps it's just because I'm used to it. I used to use Default+ all the time several versions ago, but tried out Default and liked it better immediately at the time. But I think possibly it's because the wheel goes firm under cornering, I can still feel the bumps and surface irregularities coming through, and I still feel in control at the limit.

In the Gen2 GT3: V7000 felt very 'numb', I do like how the wheel firms up under high cornering loads, but otherwise it felt like very little information about the movement of the car was being transmitted to my hands. Default+ on the other hand, was the complete opposite - it was information overload. In both cases, it was very difficult to pick when I was at the limit of grip, but Default+ was worse in the sense that the wheel goes light at the limit, and it does indeed feel like you are 'floating' through the corners. I think on this run, my time ended up being around 1.5 seconds slower compared to using V7000 due to the lack of confidence in corners.

In the Formula 3: V7000 the same as in the GT3 - somewhat numb, not much information coming back to me (it's mostly just minor vibrations). At least, not information that I'm consciously able to process as being related to what the road feels like. Default+ was significantly better in this car compared to the GT3, but it is still 'too much' information.

So I have a question that you might be able to answer, Daniel: Is your FFB better-suited to a higher powered base that can 'translate' more information simultaneously (e.g., your VNM reference base)? And for that matter - would it then make Default+ more meaningful?

 

Of course, you can use the default, that's perfectly fine and a matter of personal taste. If you don't notice any difference, that's not a problem either. I definitely feel it, and it makes the driving experience even better for me.
By the way, you should have used V7000 Topspeed 4 for comparison because that file is the most recent, and the base settings have also changed for your base. But that's a different story. Now to your question: No, I don't think a high-performance base works better with file A or file B. But there are big differences between the base systems, and there are big differences here. For this reason, I always have two files, because it's not possible to operate all systems with one FFB. The bases have different advantages and disadvantages that I could only compensate for and improve with two different files. My new reference base from VNM is a different story. It changes everything I've known about bases so far, and for me personally, it's a revolution. But that would take too long to explain, and probably not many people are interested. As I said, you can take what you want and it's your decision. There will be people who feel it and people who don't, no problem

 

Many people in Ams2 drive with a reduced steering angle on their bases.720 degrees or 540 degrees.So, why do they do this? Or why are there so many complaints, even with controllers, that their steering sensitivity isn't right? In my opinion, these are legitimate complaints.

I think some people do it because they feel that something isn't working properly with the steering axis and the steering behavior. People who reduce the steering angle on their bases do it for the same reasons as people who change the steering sensitivity in the in-game settings.But if they change it on their base, it will have other negative effects on the forces.

I would compare this change in steering sensitivity to the implementation of variable progressive steering, which provides a more direct and precise steering feel.They use a variable ratio that adapts in its directness, or the degree of transmission, between the steering wheel and the vehicle's steering wheels.This adjustment depends on the steering angle—the greater the angle, the more direct the steering response. The benefits of progressive steering lie in improved stability and thus better vehicle control.This means less steering wheel movement is required to move the wheels through a greater angle.The varying gear ratio contributes significantly to the vehicle's agility and safe handling by enabling the steering system to respond sensitively yet quickly to driver inputs.

Now the question is, is a steering sensitivity of 50% correct in Ams2? For me personally, at this point, yes and no. However, if you, like me and many other users, prefer progressive steering and the additional benefits that come with it, then my answer is 50% is wrong.

 

Have u tried to adjust the steering lock thru the car setup?
It actually affects the steering response, how loose or tight the turning radius is. I sometimes fiddle it. Adjusting the steering sensitivy is no-go for me, since i drive in VR.

 

Does any one have proper recommendations for pit house and in game FFB for bundle Moza R3 ?

 

Ok I don't know if I have the correct settings here for my moza r3. I used to be on default+ with g 45/lfb 0/fx & damping 25, but on oulton park in the gt4 it felt like saying side to side wayyy to much, to the point of the car feeling uncontrollable and constantly wanting to snap oversteer. So I tried danielkarts v7000 file 8 with the recommend settings and I must say it felt incredibly planted, almost way too much, giving me huge confidence to trailbrake deep. Now my only issue was that it almost felt like a constant torque applied without loading up gradually with speed. I also had trouble finding the grip limit due to that. Now I tried Fullffb and whilst it feels less planted, gives me a better feel for where the grip is at. Did I not set up the v7000 up correctly or is it just preferenze?

 

I think you may have misunderstood me. The steering angle in the car setup has nothing to do with it, everything is fine here. It's about the steering sensitivity and in my opinion something is wrong here. It is also irrelevant whether it is in VR or monitor mode. Of course you can't change it in VR mode because otherwise it would severely confuse your visual experience unless you turn off your visual steering wheel, but that doesn't make sense in VR. There are some basic settings in the game in Ams2 that give me a lot of ??? for me personally. I've come to terms with it and am improving it for myself with FFB and changed in-game settings as far as possible. To be honest, I've also distanced myself a bit from Ams2 in the last few weeks because other simulations don't give me these ???. Of course I will continue to use Ams2, just less intensively and I won't publish any custom files as long as these errors exist (for me personally).

 

Pure FFB for AMS2 - Simple Steering Rack Forces Only Force Feedback

This saved AMS2 for me. I had almost given up on the FFB because of the constant feeling of slip and unintelligible forces in a certain frequency range.

User Sebj posted over on the SimuCube forums about the following pure ffb configuration:

Automobilista 2 - Simucube 2

In Documents\Automobilista 2\ffb_custom_settings.txt, remove everything and paste in:

Code:

(rack (/ arm_force M_max_force_at_rack))
(output rack)
(output (* output gain))
(histogram output)

Zero out everything in-game under Force Feedback (Low Force Boost, FX, Damping) and set Gain to your preference.

SimuCube Tuner users can use the notch filter at 200hz to remove some unintelligible forces around that range. Other wheel software probably have the same feature under a different name.

More details here:

Automobilista 2 - Simwiki.net

Bonus points: Instead of monolithic custom ffb files, perhaps we should start thinking about modular code fragments like the above. For example, since the in-game FX setting now has no effect, perhaps someone could provide an FX code fragment that users could plugin at their discretion. This could lead to easily mixing and matching small code fragments for many other ffb features.

 

Using the standard custom file that comes with the game will give a similar, yet more refined experience.

Using default or default+ with FX and damper zeroed will also give similar results although with slight differences.

I suggest users try all four options to see which better suits. Using default and default+ in this way allows the option to add in a touch of damper and fx at a later point once our brains have tuned in to the rack force effects.

 

Good advice, thank you. Deleting ffb_custom_settings.txt regenerates the file and I can see from the diffs there's a little bit more going. Something about scaling. Feels like pure steering rack forces still, so I'll stick with this.

A big part of my problem was getting rid of the unintelligible forces around 200hz so I'll try Default and Default+ again.

 

The upcoming update will see a change to the Default and Default+ profiles, maybe a paddock club member can tell us what the differences will be, if allowed.

 

Default and Default+ profiles have been updated.

For me using the same settings as previously I definitely feel less 'noise' in the FFB, the sensation when braking feels great. I think to get the best from the new profiles I will need to tweak my settings.

It would be nice to have more information about the new profiles.

 

Personally, I hated the changes to Default+ with my settings in the latest release. Had to tweak it quite a bit to get the similar feeling back. I always use Formula Junior as my test bed but I think its tires also got changed. Fairly happy now but its a bit of a crap shoot even though there are only 4 sliders, its anyone's guess what real effect any of them are going to have to the subtleties of feeling at the wheel.

 

I only tried the new Lamborghini's, so no direct comparison.

I also use the FormulaJunior to set my FFB. Hopefully I will get time at the weekend to delve deeper into the new profiles. My initial thoughts are that FX as been toned down or some of the frequencies removed from it.

 

Formula junior is indeed one of the best cars to tetst FFB (custom files) in AMS2

 

I find the updated FFB to be a fantastic upgrade. I can feel tire slip and tire limits much better now. Braking feels so much better and vehicle weight is now more pronounced. I have a Fanatec CS DD and use Default +.
I updated my FFB settings as well. FFB feels the best it's ever felt.

My old setttings:
Gain 50
LFB 0
FX 8
DAMP 8

My new settings:
Gain 50
LFB 0
FX 50
DAMP 50