Tracks with overpowered AI

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by tpw, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Every game has them, those tracks where the AI magically gains 30% skill and are almost impossible to compete against. To identify them in AMS2 I've been working my way through the track roster I know very well from AMS1/AMS2, using a car that I know very well (Lancer RS), under the same time and weather (summer, clear, 1300), using the same AI difficulty (60%) and aggression (70%). Under these quick race conditions I start mid pack, let the AI do their thing until T2, and then can usually pick my way through the field in a reasonably relaxed fashion to finish 1st by a second or 2 after 5 laps. Every now and then there's a track where this just isn't possible - a few front runners tear away and can barely be kept up with despite me driving like my life depends on it, getting further and further ahead even though I get faster and faster each lap. I accept that with most tracks there are regions where I'm faster than the AI, and regions where they're faster than me. On some tracks though the balance appears largely in favour of the AI. In my admittedly unscientific testing so far, the tracks that stand out as biased towards the AI are:
    • Campo Grande
    • Snetterton 300
    • Curutiba
    • Velo Citta
    • Donington
    Additionally, the more challenging the car, the more exacerbated this issue is because the AI usually drive like they have full throttle, brake and stability control. I'd be interested if any of you (non aliens) have tracks that you feel are the same. These might provide some pointers to Reiza as they work to get AI consistency up to AMS1 levels.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  2. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I'd add Brands Hatch (Indy more than GP) especially turn 1, I don't think the player can match them round there (tried this with the Copa Uno mainly).


    I think what you describe there, about being able to start mid pack and pick them off, would be fair for the 60% mark. I'd suggest 80% being a match for your average (but still skilled and experienced) sim racer, with 100% being for the sub alien top sim drivers. Top aliens don't count in my book because they don't drive in a realistic way anyway, so you can reserve 100-120% just for them.
    50% would suit a newcomer or maybe an unskilled gamepad player. Below that I think is important to still have levels to get new players into sim racing, so young kids and those starting out can still have a good experience.
     
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  3. Touno71

    Touno71 Member

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    For me that happens in Guapore with caterham superlight.
    It's impossible to follow the IA on some curves, because they never slide and they have more speed...
     
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  4. SwaggerJacker

    SwaggerJacker Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Kyalami Historic. The start finish straight. Even when drafting the AI going down the hill, they will pull away quickly. I've had a .7 second lead disappear at the end of the straight. They seem to be 5-10 mph quicker there. Also, turn six (the esses). They whip around that left like they're on rails. It's impossible (for me, could be setup) to match that speed there. This is with the Sprint Cars.

    Edit: Turn six was my horrific driving. Since remedied.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  5. Romeo Foxtrot

    Romeo Foxtrot Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I am not an alien driver by any means (GPL Rank -20, if that means anything these days). I'm 1 to 2 seconds off the laps recorded by Heinrik Roos in GTR2.

    I'm currently running the AI at 120 (is it a percentage?) and, using the Lancer, Sprint Race, F-3, P4 MRX and now also the Puma GT5, I'm beating them at such places as Oulton Fosters and Classic, Adelaide, Curitiba, Santa Cruz, Londrina and Goiania (except for the final corner where I can't touch them).

    I'm competitive at most other circuits, running in the top six, and also in the winged formula cars (though I won't drive a car with a halo) at most GP tracks but I'm back of the pack at Imola 72 (OK at the modern variant).

    I haven't touched any of the setups yet except the Formula Vintage, which became undriveable since this morning's hotfix restoring the FFB to positive. (None of my setup changes helped.)

    I don't know Campo Grande well enough yet and I've not tried Snetterton in its 300 layout but after reading the last post, I've just run the Sprint Race cars at Kyalami and find I'm mid-pack there but I haven't taken the Sprint cars there before. I'm in the mid 1m 28s. Top gear should hit (131 mph) at the top of the hill and max out at 134 just after. If they're passing you on the run down to Crowthorne it may be your exit speed from Leeukop.
     
  6. SwaggerJacker

    SwaggerJacker Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I'm running low 27's. It isn't my exit speed. Thanks for your resume.
     
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  7. Romeo Foxtrot

    Romeo Foxtrot Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    You're faster than me then but they weren't getting away from me down the hill.
     
  8. SwaggerJacker

    SwaggerJacker Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Probably not faster. You just don't have much time with that combo. I say it isn't my exit speed because I run them down out of Leeukop, tuck in behind another for a slip, and he runs away from me. Then the car I pass chases me down. Not so much this morning. It appears the Devs are making progress. However, it's still a bit of an annoyance.
     
  9. SwaggerJacker

    SwaggerJacker Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Try slip streaming at the top of the hill. I start closing on them, then they pull away? Must be a Ferrari engine! Bad azz.
     
  10. VaiHalen

    VaiHalen New Member

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    Fusca at Oulton, for me is impossible win that AI.
     
  11. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    You're correct. Just tried a race there and I got into the high 26's:
    upload_2020-4-18_21-49-32.png

    But down the hill they have a higher top speed. I have the same problem at Interlagos and it is because of the gear ratios, you hit the limiter on the main straight but the AI don't. I expect this is because after a certain AI level they can use custom setups and even cheat to go faster like in PCars2. I checked in the available setup though and you can't decrease the ratio for top gear or final drive any further to increase the top speed. Very annoying when the AI can cheat like that to make up for poor skills elsewhere.
     
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  12. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I'd say that accusing AI of cheating is quite a good acknowledgement that they are believable. Sometimes I forget that racing AI is racing a robot that fell in love with a spreadsheet and made some babies.
     
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  13. Hector

    Hector New Member

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    I will never understand why we have to search and search for setups, we just want that with our default setup we can have the same level as the AI on average.
    For example, if the AI is from 0 to 100%, if I don't touch anything in the car, I can calmly do it faster than AI by 50%, 60% or 70%.
    In Jacarepagua try AI at 30% and it is very difficult to beat the leader.
    The only "cheat" I found is to be drifting or poweslide all day, with that "trick" I win a couple of seconds but it is not realistic, I am abusing because the game allows me to.
    That sensation of arcade and the ghost of PC2 keep floating, we want a "simulator"
    Please Reiza, make the AI rhythm "normal" with the default setups.
    You guys did an excellent job with Game Stock Car, you can do it again.
     
  14. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    This isn't some random accusation to explain being beaten by the AI. I'm over a second faster per lap yet after they start out slower on the main straight they can start gaining time. It was well known that after 80% difficulty in PCars2 the AI could use custom setups and exceed the limits for the car such as rev limit. Most people termed this as cheating. If you want to call it more believable then that's up to you.
     
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  15. 250swb

    250swb Active Member

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    I agree on that especially. You can gain on the Ai around the rest of track, and while Paddock Hill bend is a difficult corner to judge anyway even in real life a perfect line in AMS 2 is always negated by the Ai disappearing into the distance again, only to catch them again two corners later.
     
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  16. John Hargreaves

    John Hargreaves Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I just meant that I get beaten by them too, but they aren't real, they are just some numbers. I agree that it feels unfair, but it's hardly cheating.
     
  17. Mahjik

    Mahjik Active Member

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    Just to clarify, in PC2, after 80 they will adjust setups (mainly aero and final drive) but within the limits of the car. Over 100, the AI will have the ability to "cheat". The idea was that at 100, the AI runs at it's best ability given the tools that it has... But it was understood that even then, some players will still be better than the AI so the "over 100" mode was made accessible.
     
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  18. SwaggerJacker

    SwaggerJacker Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    AI will never be close to perfect. But the Devs are heading in the right direction. Still, I haven't really been racing much because 1. I keep getting disconnected in MP. I have yet to even start a race in MP, and 2. the AI is still somewhat unbalanced and frustrating to drive against. Depending on the combination that is.
     
  19. Stepy

    Stepy Active Member

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    Exit of turn 3 at Imola they have this insane Acceleration and pull away 2-3 car lengths no matter how good an exit you get.
     
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  20. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have an issue with the semantics of using the word "cheat". Maybe you could offer a different word that conveys the meaning of "being able to use settings that the player is unable to"?

    Primary definition of cheat (verb): "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage"

    Anyway this is besides the point. The advantage or how it is gained is not the issue, the issue is how unbalanced the AI is on most tracks. The example you took offence at for the word cheat shows that the AI whilst slower on most of the circuit have a higher top speed and later braking. This makes for a very unbalanced race when you can be faster for 90% of the lap but be unable to defend on the main straight so lose any progress you make.
     
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